Such jocularity in the face if adversity. I hope your spirits are as high on Saturday. . . .

::Hands Tab some cheese, frowning.:: Could you do the prophesy thing... over there? Im sure that the One would want everyone watching your ... um ... reading of the ... um.. well.. Just tell me what he says, okay?

Well we talked a lot abot the doom combat scene and what to change to make sure something like that never happens again. The main decision that was made is to reorganize how combat is done. ALL chalanges will now be apposed. Please refer to the new Laws under challenges or Laws of the Hunt for mass combat. We will go over this in more detail at the LARP so I recommended actually paying attention during the meeting. You snooze you loose. See you Saturday...

Well If you want the Great Ones 2 cents here it is, the Great one Feels, we should have a game with the people.... The People is what Makes this game. Hopefully it will be the same game, so I can come and join your Larp, Im going to quit WWF and join your Larp so i can out smack talk every one here. Hell we could do a WWF Larp. As for the Cam. The Rock says this, gather all yer roody pooh candy ass's up go to the ocean, Find the Biggest Whale you can find. Then cam find the ass end of the whale, or the blow hole, roll yourselfs up real nice, then turn sidways and them move your selfs directly up its monkey ass, IF YA SMELLLLL, what the Rock issss cookin. ( Music ) the rock says the rock the rock

Hmmm...swiss cheese. Can I have some as well? I can use it to prophesy for The One. Maybe we'll get a clue as to what we should do about this blood disease.

Okay...now for my two cents... ::digs in my pocket, and looks panicked.:: DAMMIT!!! Who stole my two cents??!?!?!?!??!?!?!

mmmm....swiss cheese... ::drool:: I want in on that!!

Per healing rules... once again I have to ask for page numbers and locations in books relating to one blood healing two bashing, lethal and bash healing being reflexive, and Agg being an only one per day thing. I think the last one is legit in 3rd, but we've decided not to use it. The first two aren't spelled out well in the rules and the reason we have ALWAYS played with healing taking an entire round (this is not a new thing) is A: it's not spelled out in the books, and B: reflexive healing causes rules problems (You took fourty damage and are still standing? Isn't this combat EVER going to be over?) I'll do some looking myself to make sure I haven't overlooked anything, but I dont believe this is a house rule, only an interpretation/clarification.

There are only a few things we do different than the books intentionally, those are Clan/Sect Influence, Generation Flaws (New last week, still experimental), Initiative (by mine and Seth's read of the book anyhow), and the effects of permanent Daemonic Possession (which we have had to make up rules for). We need to keep rules issues from becoming major concerns, but they are important. Keep watching over our shoulder, sometimes we need a watchdog, but for gods sake look it up and give us somewhere to verify your interpretation.

except that I have a script running to take all the two cents and deposit them into a swiss cheese account.

With all of the two cents being tossed around, we should be the richest LARP around here.

::blinks:: Wow... someone agreed with me?? I didnt expect that....

Okay, my two cents again. I really don't care if this game continues over the summer or someone starts another one. I just want to continue LARPing with you guys and gals over the summer. So, we have three options it seems. 1) Continue with this game over the summer, 2) Start a new game, or 3) No game over the summer. I for one opt against decision 3. If-in we do start a new game over the summer, then what happens to the old one? I agree with Lisa that the plot(s) shouldn't be rushed to an end. So, do we then just hold them at this gigantic cliff-hanger? Hmmm...sounds iffy to me. (People tend to forget things after three months.) I feel the best way to handle it is to discuss all possible options then put it to a vote...for both players and storytellers. So, what do you peoples think?

Things in this plot are really good and tense, and with only a few sessions left ... I dont see how we can end this as of yet without totally rushing things and ending it in a way that could have been much better if there had been more time to do things. A lot of changes were made when we decided to go to one genre, Vampire, and quite personally, I like this plot a lot. Maybe we could continue it long enough to give it a REALLY awesome end, and then start a new one, if this is what people wanna do? I just...I really, really like the way that it is going!!

I'd personally prefer if a different game were run during the summer. I don't have a say in whether or not the current game continues since I won't be here, however. If there are people willing to run a separate game over the summer, I say do that.

The reasoning behind the rules changes regarding healing are as follows. Healing ONE point of bashing, after the halving occurs(sorry I didn't mention that would still be used), per blood point is to avoid any math having to be done outside of school. Having to spend an entire round healing lethal damage makes sense. Getting hit with a sword, bullet, potence using NPC(ahem), would hurt a lot more than getting kicked in the head or punched in the gut. Lastly, healing aggravated wounds at the rate of only one a day is ridiculous. All it requires in table top is trait expenditure, I don't see why it should be any different in Live Action now that the number of traits(blood and willpower) is equal.

Ok. Was the grim combat scene run well? Heck no! Was it the fault of communication? YES! Is it just the Storytellers to blame? NO! Everyone claims to hate mob combat but when it happens peole seem to come out of the wood work to join in the fray! I woul appreciate any suggestions you have John. Perhaps you could e-mail me them tongiht so we can discuss it tonight. There are a few steps we havnt been using and iniative needs to be hashed out AGAIN. However, please be aware that a lot of calls in that scene were made on the fly to END the scene. We were at least 30 minutes past midnight. I dont see similar calls happening in the future. That is all for now. Talk to you all after the meeting.

Well, before deciding XP for the summer, we should probably make a definate decision as to whether we are going to continue this campaign over the summer. Last year, we opted to try a constantinople by night game, which IMO went pretty well, though I know some people weren't thrilled. I personally have no objection either way. The chance to try out something new is always appealing, but I've rather enjoyed the current plotline and wouldn't have a problem continuing to play over the summer, at least for those portions that I am here. I think it would be good to hear from everyone on this subject though.

Wow .... John's talkative today, aye? So... the rules bannan gets no monkey and the healing rules change to Agg that is lethal over the week and .... ::Le sigh:: Okay. Im confuzzled. Im gonna go have some jello, laters.

I do have another suggestion regarding the larp over the summer. The main arguement against running as-is over the summer is that the college students will be caught in an XP gap. (2per game*3games per month*4months=24XP) What I propose is to cut the XP for normal characters to one per game (1 one per every other game for elders) and allow the abcentee players to continue to use there characters influences and retainers during the downtimes as per normal. This would shrink the gap to (1*3*4)-(16/3)= 7 aproxamately. Does this sound accepabe to the players and the STs? The present gamers should get a small bonus for being here, but 7 is only a litte more than an intermediate discipline. Feedback anyone?

BTW, I'm having a great time with the game, the player driven plots have been very cool. I'm a litte learly of any ST plots that involve uber-grim monsters comming to town and the deaths of former justicars but we'll see how it goes. I'm really glad how Mark took the whole thing last night, as he and many others said - Vince had it comming. The only point of concern for me was how the ST's ran the scene. There are ways to run a mob combat and that wasn't it. There are also ways of running the scene while appearing impartal, that wasn't it either. If the two of you would like some pointers as to how to run a mob combat, please see me either before or after the game. I've learned a few tricks while narrating over the last 6 years at other games. They may work for you guys.

Bad rules monkey, no bannana! Please let me know why you are futzing with the healing rules. the published ones are just fine (with the correction of the one typo) and maintain game ballance far better then your's do. The way I think they were intended was: vampires take 1/2 damage from Bashing, rounding down, full damage from lethal and Agg. The gealing for lethal and bashing take place during the burn blood phase with one blood poind healing one lethal or two bashing (fractions are lost) and Agg. only being able to be healed while sleeping duning the day, at a rate of one per day at the cost of one Will and three blood traits. These traits used during the week should be subtracted from the starting blood and will for the next game the character attends. So please ST staff, justify your changes at the same time as you declare these house rules. There are many implications for the rules changes proposed by A-bomb, please think carefully about them and wether or not you want to live with the consequences. Yours in concerned rules-lawering,

You know, Juju and Sarah would be great in a commercial for "Hooked on Phonics".......

Juju~

O .....K..... I have it now.... Actually, I had it then .... I just wanted to make it clear for others who might be reading.... Thank .... you....

Let's spell this out one more time for the Brew-ha big cheese, nice... and slow... Follow carefuly now. If you are gone... then the game ends. If some one attempts to kill you then you really haven't left have you? Now if they suceed... then your dead and gone... right? Man I hope I wasn't this bad when I was in the Cam. Talk about starting from the beginning.

Question...Does anyone really have to ask if I'm having fun?

After reading the last couple of weeks worth of posts, I'm not sure if this is funny or if it's really sad. This LARP was formed because of the personality conflicts and the arguments with others when some people couldn't get along with others. People disagreed on how the LARP should be run, who would be the storyteller and arguments over the rules became far more important to the game.

To answer Pyle's question I'll state my opinion here. In general, I don't like LARPing as much as table top. I've seen and been involved with a lot of conflicts in LARPs long before this one existed. I've seen how the number and quality of the players vary. I've seen how the personalities conflict. I've seen players as well as storytellers act vindictively to kill one particular player's character. None of those things are fun. Do I want to commit every Saturday to spending my evenings this way? Hell no! For me, I enjoy playing in the LARP when I have an evening free or when I want to see old friends but overall, all the arguing and the bickering just isn't worth it to me.

To a lot of people this is an important means of socializing and enjoying their weekend. I applaud that. And I'm very greatful that so many have worked so hard and for so long to keep this LARP going. Inevitably, some people will always bitch. Some will always cause problems. But the things that make this LARP great is the fact that the storytellers will listen to your complaints.

Now to deal with comments about the Prince.... That's just sad. In character, I have goaded Sarah. I have insulted Sarah and I have belittled Sarah. In character, I've been one of the people who's accused her of being a "puppet prince" and worse...but I was Giovanni. My character is not in her fan club. From what little I've interacted with Lisa, as a player, I think she's a strong willed individual who stands up for her convictions and beliefs. She has great passions and I respect a person's conviction to stand up for themselves even when I argue 100% against their point of view. Maybe the Camarilla right now is a weak organization and it needs some more players and better roleplayers to boost it's ranks. So what...that happens from time to time. If another character thinks you need a new prince, go for it, try to take it. Just do it in character.

The diversity in this game has caused some considerable chaos. Multiple genres require multiple storytellers. Having Camarilla, Sabbat, and Giovanni also causes a lot of conflict and confusion. Just try to know where the character ends and player begins. Even if you HATE the character, try to respect the player. If you HATE the player...well try to work things out and don't bring those differences into the game or at the very least share your feelings with the storytellers and maybe your interactions can be minimized.

Oh and one last piece of advice for everyone when they go to Theo's after the game....SHUT THE HELL UP. Don't share your whole plot or devious plan with everyone out of character and then get pissed off when people start acting on that info the next week. You're causing your own problems. That's not metagaming that is you shooting yourself in the foot.

Ok...I'll shut up now.

Yo Gio's! First you start shit then you flee! What a bunch of yella bread bitches... If any yo punk asses still in town I got a little deal fo 'ya. The rat knows how to get ahold of me...Later Punks!

Bishop Jason, Sarah, I have a proposal to offer to the both of you as someone who is neutral in your little tiff. Please, E-mail me, and I'll inform you as to what I'm referring to.

(from the basement of Steve DeBevic's): uh, hello? hello? Is anyone there? um, there's a leak in one of the keg's down here, and its getting my robes wet. Um, could someone fix it, or let me past the great barrier? Please? Its rather cold. Steve? Corbitt? Anyone? I promise not to shoot lightning bolts from my eyes any more, if someone will fix this...

I think you're doing a good job playing sarah, lisa, at least OOC (IC, I think Sarah's an obstinate pain in the ass, but that's IC after all ;-)). If I've given you any reason to think I have a problem with you or your character OOC, I apologize. Honestly, I think most of the PCs have been playing their characters well; I'd be far more concerned if everyone was getting along perfectly for absolutely no IC reason. :-) As far as the LARP as a whole, I don't have any real problems; I've actually felt that things have been steadily going better in this LARP for quite some time. If people *do* have problems, either with characters or the LARP as a whole, voice 'em. People may not always agree that whatever is brought up *is* a problem, as the past few days have indicated, but its still better that these things are brought out rather than simmering and possibly leading to people leaving LARP for reasons that could have easily been rectified. Oh, and I agree with Pyle's point: if you think that whatever your posting may be unclear as to whether its IC or OOC, use which ever acronym is appropriate to clarify. It'll save a lot of headaches and unnecessary arguments.

After grading horribly maimed algebra for the past 2 hours (with more grading & some uber-doom graph theorems to prove later on tonight still), I have been granted the following Banality-induced insight: Most everybody is having more fun in the LARP than they've ever had before, and, at the same time, there is more OOC argument about how the LARP should be run, what characters should be played, etc. than there ever has before. Therefore, the amount of fun people are having with the LARP is directly related to the amount of bickering going on. Hence, to increase everyone's enjoyment, I suggest.. Nay, I _demand_ that the 7:00 - midnight time spent at the Fortress be changed to an Argument Session about what should be done with the LARP, and then a bit of roleplaying may be done at Thieo's afterwards. So sayeth the Ventrue.

O prophetess of doom, who fares over the Aegean...please tell me how I can get in touch with you. I can't get into your offices any more, and I haven't seen you at your haven. I need your help. Please. I've run out of places to hide.

Seems to me that we are back to the same old confusion over wether this site is IC or OOC and therefore usable at the LARP. There is no real way to regulate the posts on this site. Therefore, I would suggest that players please post an IC post with your character's name and an OOC post with your name. This should elimantae the IC or OOC confusion. Thank you,

Lisa, I know this is OOC, but I feel it needs to be said like the last one was. I truly apologise from the bottom of my heart for ever upsetting you, offending you or making it sound like I was bashing your character. Sarah is an excellent character, and the fact that she is your first makes it all the more impressive. I'm not going to even try to humor you with excuses because there are none. What I said was half-in and half-out of character, but it was my own fault..and there is nothing I can do about it but apologise. When I posted the message, I thought this message board was meant to be for either in-character or out-of-character comments...because quite frankly, that was what I saw. But that is not what this is all about. I never intended my comment to be a "Let's bash Lisa" comment. I really don't want you to hate me over this...I never intended it that way (or I wouldn't have signed my name) I'm really having fun at this LARP, and aside from the same old OOC bullshit running rampant like every other LARP I've been to, I must rank it one of the best I've seen. Anyway, I'm rambling again. As I said before and I'll say again, I was wrong in what I did, and I never intended it to be taken as far as it was. I've heard a few things and figured if I made it public knowledge, then It'd all end. But I jumped the gun, and someone got hurt. Which is the last thing I ever wanted. So again, I apologise from the bottom of my heart. If there is anything I can do to even begin to make it up to you, please email me and let me know. Forever apologetic, Bianca =<

As punnishment for the actions of Vincent Giovanni, I have removed the former family members of the city Permantly. As of thus moment there are no kindred family members in Lansing. Any dealings with us can be made through the e-mail address below. We well respond promptly. I once again apologize for the over zealous actions of a former family member. I hope that this well serve as a lesson to all of you that if Giovanni punishment is this harsh for family members, imagine what punishment would be in store for those outside of the family if they choose to go against us. I am glad that we understand each other. Yours truely,

Got a question for you guys... Do you like the LARP? I just got done reading the posts and as far as I can tell the only people that got any problems with the way LARP is going is my fellow storytellers. Anybody have in OOC concerns? I personally have only one in game comment. As pertains to the attacks on Sarah: Lisa, you are playing your character great! However, I have been larping for many years and I can tell you EVERY prince goes through these attacks. It is part of being in charge. As long as you have your loyal supporters you should be fine. I applaud your resilience! OOC I have no personal opinion of the LARP. My job is too make sure the players are having fun. If the players want to blow up the world, let them! As Dave said though our job is too make sure the world fights back. I would like to eliminate attacks on this board both by the players and the storytellers. This board was designed as an in character chat site not an OOC bitch session. That goes for ALL of us. The bottom line is, are you guys having fun? Let us know!

Michael, I'm sad to say that Timothy is no longer in the city. He has traveled south for some extended business, and may not return due to illness. Please seek the ear of the Giovanni in Detroit if you have any further issues as they are no longer here. Thank you.

mmm... Im getting hungry now.. cheese..jello ..cheesy jello? Sounds like something that naked people wrestle in for prizes at that all night sleeze bar down the road.

Greetings. My name is Michael Popa. I'm fairly new in this city. I'm looking for someone by the name of Timothy Giovanni. My last reports say that he was in town. Can someone please direct me his way? Thank you

Juju~

So ... you are offering $40,000 on the head of anyone that destroys me? Let me get this straight.. is it actually killing me, or just trying to? ::Grin:: I feel all important now.

Sarah

Hey Sarah!!!! I think you misunderstood me. There is no price on your head. The price goes on the head of anyone foolish enough to destroy you. What fun is a game if you play by yourself, right? If your gone the game ends. But you are right about one thing...$20,000 is a bit small. Let's say we double it. $40,000 is not that much to ensure ample thrills and pleasure with your continued presence in the city. For you would be assassins who would like to avoid this price on your head by offing me first will come to a nasty wake up as the transaction will be carried out independent of my participation. Even if I'm gone the price will be on your head. Until next time PARTY ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ms. Buchannan,

Due to the complicated nature of the research that I'm performing on the black sunflowers and the disease that they carry, I will spare you the explination of how it relates to the process of making cheese. I have been told in the past that my lectures could even bore one of our kind to death. Good evening.

mmmmmm....cheese

Dr. Fairchild~

Are you working on a cure or a freakin salad bar? First jello, now cheese?? Do I even want to know what you are up to in that lab of yours? Probably not. ::chuckle::

To all of the Cam that are with me: There will be a meeting Saturday night. I hope to see you all there. It will start at 7pm, at the usual place. You know where I mean. And for any that dont, get with another Cam person, or contact me by email or phone.

I know that this is a game, and I have been trying to take it as such. But Mark, you know as well as I do, cos we have talked at Theio's, that I am getting tired of the OOC attacks on Sarah. If it was just a random occurance, I could deal with it a lot better. I am having fun for the most part at the LARP, yes. I just dont appriciate it, as I am sure that others dont, when characters are slammed constantly. The only thing that I did in that post was defend Sarah. That is all that I set out to do. Like several of the other newer players here, I am still learning the ins and outs of this game. Sarah, for the most part, was a premade character when I got her, as I had no idea as to how to even make a character. I just happen to think that I have done pretty well with her since I started playing her last September. From what I have heard from other players, they are thinking the same thing. Having that thought torn down is not exactly the most pleasant of feelings.. to compare it to something that I know better, its like LARP is the opening night of a play, something that you thought that you were doing really well at, and you have a leading role. Then all of a sudden, someone tells you that you totally suck. Can you see what I am saying here? There are characters in the LARP that I think are totally off, but I can assure you that I have never once said something like that to their players, let alone on a public board for all to read.

Anyway .... I will try to keep all of my lil OOC stuff off of the board from now on, but know, that there is only so much a person can take, even in a game. And despite the fact that it is a game, people's feelings can still be hurt, and people do get mad. People put a lot of work into their characters... it's like a work of expression.

Again, I have a request to put to the population of the city of Lansing.

If anyone has resources among the libraries of the city, or among book resellers, I need as many manuals on the production of cheese as I can get my hands on. Unfortunately, these manuals were among many lost from MSU's and LCC's libraries during the riots of two weeks ago. Please contact me if you have this resource.

Yours in Science,
Dr. Alexander Fairchild

You all sound like bickering old women ina nursing home, for hells sake. Keep it in game, its a GAME a GAME. Im not ooooberly pissed about Vince Dieing because i played him how i was suppost to, he wa sa grim lock smash character, yes it took 6 plus people to bring me down and kill me HOW EVER, its all cool, i dont hate anyone, im happy as a god damn Happy from snow White and the 7 Dwarfs. The Point here is to have fun, it would be nice if we all were working together a bit more, but as of right now were all at war, oh damn life goes on. When people get pissed out of Char its how friends are lost and people start hating each other and in the end Ruining the Larp. Everyone take a nice big glass of Shut up Juice, and quite bitching like a bunch of Candy Ass's. HAVE FUN............. Im having a great time, as should the rest of you being.

And as far as diplomacy ... I suggest you talk to some people before you go saying that she has none. Perhaps former dealings with the Giovanni .. and the Changelings.. and the Garou .. and .. the list goes on and on....

Quite honestly, I do take offense to that. Sarah, just becos she does not walk around using presense summon or yelling and screaming.. that makes her no less of a Prince. She has been in numerous combat scenes, for example, the killing of Vince Giovanni ... the blood rain ending, and others too numerous to count. Among the Cam, most of the time the others took off, and who was left to fight? Sarah and Malcom. Or Sarah. Or Malcom. She has a HELL of a lot of backbone to sit there and fight the Giovanni and the Sabbat in a 2 pronged battle, when the EASY thing to do would be to sign the treaty. But she refuses despite ALL of the threats. She upholds what she believes in no matter what. If that isnt backbone.. then I think that you need to look up the definition. Sarah has done exceedingly well as a Prince, and I know that there are others out there that will agree with me. The fact that she is my FIRST larp character makes that especially amazing. I never expected to be Prince. To be honest, I have had it with people calling her a "lap dog" and a "puppet prince". I play her like I do for a REASON. It is a part of her character. That is all that I can say without giving all of her little surprises away. Needless to say, she isnt what she appears to be. If you think that she is a wimpy Prince, then try to take the title from her. I guess that she has no backbone. She sure the hell wont step down. She refuses to sign the treaty and take the easy way out. And the ONLY time that she has hidden was the night that most of the LARP's plot line was "find and kill Sarah Buchannan". And even then ... she lived. Sarah isnt the Cam. But she is the reason that the treaty with the Sabbat hasnt been signed, and hopfully, she will continue to be the proverbial thorn in their side. There. I think I have said my peace now.

Try to keep the politics IN CHARACTER Bianca. Getting a new Prince should be something taken care of in the game. If your character cant say it for one reason or another, then I cant see any reason why you should say it OOC. And I can think of several why you shouldn't. This is a perfect example of where metagaming starts and player/player bad feelings take over.

Police are baffled by what may have caused a roughly 60 second long firefight and chase that took place just before morning last Saturday outside Potter Park in Lansing. No bodies were discovered, but the remains of a badly burned BMW, apparently destroyed by gunfire, is in the custody of the FBI. All evidence from the scene has been impounded by authorities, the Lansing State Journal has learned that this includes the remains of an M-60 machine gun, bullet casings from several different sources, possible grenade shrapnel, blood samples, fingerprints and at least one eye witness account. The motive is currently being investigated as related to organized crime. The drivers of the vehicles involved are still at large.

This is only the latest destruction within the city that has sent citizens fleeing in droves despite the current "stay put" order by Mayor McKane. Last month, an Emergency situation was declared by Governor Engler over the second annual and infinately more destructive student rampage which killed three hundred and twelve people and wounded many others. Two University of Michigan students already await sentencing after allegedly initially confessing then denying responsibility for the murders. Dozens of others are also under investigation as members of this alleged "Death Cult", while at least twenty members of the organized massacre were killed by police.

As far as I can tell...we don't have enough experienced Camarilla players or characters in order to sustain Lansing as a Camarilla city. We have Sabatt running around shooting people or running them over. We have Giovanni running around blowing things up. And what do the Camarilla do? They run and hide and run again. My suggestion for the Camarilla, and I really don't mean this to offend anyone, is that we need a new Prince. We need a Prince that is both charismatic enough and political enough to make decisions and enforce them. If we are to keep Lansing as a Camarilla city, then we must act swiftly and harshly. We need a strong leader that everyone will listen to, and the Camarilla will follow. Now don't get me wrong, I have no clue who would fit this portfolio, but wither our current Prince needs to get a backbone and demand the Camarilla listen and do as she commands, or we need someone to take her place. Otherwise, the Camarilla are nothing in this city and it falls into the rule of the Sabbatt and the Giovanni. There, I've said my peace.

The senseless violence and expression of vampiric nature to the kine must stop. The Sabbat attracts attention through their hedonistic rituals. The Camarilla, the supposed Ivory Tower of vampiric society, attracts attention to kill an incredibly stupid Giovanni. None of any of this was necessary. I WILL make an example of the next vampire, regardless of affiliation or my personal feelings towards said individual, who shows their nature to a mortal. This includes anything from taking a bullet in public to turning into a bat at a concert. This is a first and last warning.

If people are having fun, that's what is important. As far as I can see, people are having fun. If not, LET US KNOW. Whether we change something is debatable, but feedback is welcome. As far as breaches of the Masquerade go, perhpas blame is being misplaced. I don't want to start a flame war, but who used Celerity, Potence, Protean and whatever else to bring down Vince Giovanni? I'm also curious as to how a few players were able to tote around heavy weapons(shotguns, assault rifles, etc.) with the streets being patrolled by National Guardsmen. . .

As far as I'm concerned the players have been doing a fine job in the story so far. I have a couple of problems that have to be worked out, one major one I can think of off hand, but it's not something the players should be concerned about. There will be storyteller plots and NPCs and rulings that might not favor this player or that player, but that's the way of the game. You can be assured there will be no uber-savetheworld-grimness going on this semester. I have recieved alot of flak though for the decisions I *have* made. Remember that the storytellers are here for a reason, to make sure the rest of the world doesn't get walked on by the PCs from a mid-sized middle of the midwest city *is* one of them. So take care with who you offend or kill or you might just wind up on the *wrong* side of the food chain.

There were a *lot* more than 6 cammies running around, even if you don't include the PCs who are cam in name, but don't really support the sect fully. As far as inexperienced vs. experienced players, there's not much that can be done. Even if we went cam only, what will that solve, exactly? Unless there's an uber-doom metaplot where we either all work together or die (something I oppose greatly) you end up with the same situation: experienced players taking the lead in most situations. Hell, I would argue that having multiple sects actually helps the inexperienced players by spreading out the experienced players in varied positions, and giving the less experienced players a chance to take leadership roles that they most likely wouldn't be able to take or hold if there were only a half dozen positions for the entire LARP to fight over. As for the sabbat and giovanni threatening the cam: yes we are. You will not however that we are not *attacking* the cam directly. If we were, things would be a lot more miserable. The sabbat, in the time that we've been playing them as PCs, have killed two other PCs: one was an assassination, the other was a PC in the wrong place at the wrong time. The giovanni, as far as I know, have killed even less PCs. I'm sorry seth, but there's limits to the amount that I am willing and able to downplay my character, and I'm guessing most of the other players feel the same. I'm not going to turn my PC into the sabbat bishop of eeevvviilll who comes up with utterly absurd plots that are incredibly transparent and can be easily defeated every week. I'm not designing plans to wipe out the camarilla PCs, nor for that matter are the giovanni (at least as far as I know). We're designing plans to garner more power in the city, and to achieve the personal goals of our PCs. If you and the rest of the STs want something other than that from the non-cam PCs, then you probably would be better off having those groups run as NPCs, though as Mike said, that's likely to generate hard feelings, more or less depending on the player. As for grim plots, bring 'em on! I knew damn well that hunters would likely swarm the city after the sabbat tore apart the masquerade. From the sabbat perspective, that means jack and shit. They're *mortals* after all; food at best, and a nuicance to be killed or manipulated into attacking your enemies at worst. If you want to be mad about masquerade breaches in the game, be mad IC with NPCs; we're playing our characters as their beliefs, motivations, and goals dictate us to.

Thank you for the comments John and Dave.

Im happy for the rest of you experienced players.. Im glad your having a wonderful time.... the biggest point of what i said was that most of the cam players are inexperienced. Even more so now that malcom is no longer prince and there are about what? 6 cam players?

Breaches by all sides have been noted. I just explained to Adam some of them that I know of that apparently he didnt. Breaches will be one of several of our topics at the next ST meeting.

Also, I've heard one voice speak out for continuing the larp into the summer since my last post. If you want to have a voice in the descision, email Adam,David,Pyle or myself. That voice helped me feel alot better about the condition of the larp than what I experienced 2 weeks ago.

and dont worry, I'd never "whimsy" death anybody, but i can definately make it grim for a scene.

Agreed John and Dave. Seth, I must say, as a Giovanni player, That last week, I was PURE Giovanni. I made a little plot *the disease* and Dave's character delivered the it to them in order to scare the cam players into hopefully joining the treaty. Then the Storytellers ran with it, and *my character* saw a great oportunity to get his greedy little hands on the remainder of the influence and ran with it too, screwing alot of people's characters in the process. Sorry bout that John(Malcolm). >:) It had nothing to do with me wanting this to be an Independant LARP. I believe that I can safely speak for the rest of the independant players as well. If I wanted it to be a Independant ONLY LARP my character would have made a very large attempt to save Mark's character, but, in character, he fucked up, and paid the price the "Giovanni Way". I have to say that if the Storytellers say all out that "Oh, we will allow Cam players only, and that all your work as an Independant player is for nigh" that I wont be returning to LARP. As I said, I agree with Dave, this last week was the best that the LARP has been in weeks, with the exception of that trillion hour combat scene at the end *chuckle*. As Dave said, the Grel (who almost number more than the Giovanni and Sabbat combined), played a kick ass game of "I agree with you totally." to both sides and then turning their backs like nothing happened. The Sabbat actually stayed very quite all night, at least as far as interaction with the cam and mortal society goes, as did the Giovanni, with the obvious exception of Vincent. Yeah, we made plots, some that affected the cam players greatly, but isn't that what the game is about? I hope that you recend that "none except cam" attitude. Otherwise, I at least, will find another LARP to participate in...

Oh, and one other thing I feel should be talked about: masquerade breeches. There appears to be some confusion here. Breeching the masquerade involves a) demonstrating vampiric powers in some sort of public fashion, and/or b) telling a non-vampire about vampiric society. Killing people, blowing stuff up, etc. do not *necessarily* entail a breech of the masquerade, though they will draw attention that could result in a masquerade breech. And yes, this does mean the sabbat has broken the masquerade on several occassions, the most netorious being during our festival. It does not mean however, that a vampire who opens fire with a gun on a group of mortals in in violation of the masquerade, though there may well be other penalties for such actions (anyone remember corbitt?).

*smiles* by your own words, sarah, the cam will not be part of the council. Villem has accepted, but has declined to rule as camarilla leader. This means that villem and any from the camarilla who follow him, will receive council support. You cannot have your cake and eat it too, my dear prince; we are not going to give you or your followers freebies that our groups are working and risking their lives to provide, simply so your faction can continue to attempt to destroy our rule.

*nods* listen to skippy he speaks the truth. There is a huge difference between what I post IC on this list, or say in game, and what the realities of the situation are. You're damn right the sabbat is trying to make the camarilla feel outnumbered, outgunned, and out maneuvered. That doesn't *necessarily* mean we can carry through with all our threats (though I'm not going to be a real softy and let you which ones are real, and which ones are bluffs; that's part of the fun). As far as breaches of the masquerade go, that's what sabbat *do* in enemy territories. The masquerade serves to protect the camarilla from hunters far more than it does the sabbat; by tearing it up, we draw attention to kindred activities that the cam is forced to clean up, most of the time. And as far as the disease goes, that was an IC plot with ST intervention to take it in a different direction. Suffice it to say, without ST approval it wouldn't be injuring cam players right now.

Woah, hold on there Seth. What are you talking about, "Everybody jump the cam"? If those are the impressions that you're hearing about the game, I think you're sadly mistaken. Several plots were started up by players (and taken out of their hands unneccessarily, I might add) that had nothing to do with Sabbat vs. Camarilla or anybody else vs. Camarilla. The Gangrel played their independant status beautifully (changing sides like the wind... the best!). The Giovanni had a member killed because he went too far. The Camarilla actually made some headway against the Sabbat and Giovanni, not to mention the political backstabbing that's going on with them. All of this was done by players, and I can do nothing but applaud them. I think this LARP is reaching a point that I've never seen a LARP reach before. The storyteller plots are taking a back seat to plots generated by the players and their characters. THAT is what a LARP is supposed to be.

The meTagaming comment was unnecessary. That should have been E-mailed to one of the ST's. We can't stop people from doing it if they want to ruin everyone else's game, short of telling that person to leave OR I can have a Tzimisce NPC Fleshcraft whose ever character it was to a toilet seat for a Bratovich Revenant to sit on(if you didn't know, THAT'S BAD). There are two things everyone can do about this. DON'T talk out of character, unless its something you don't care if people know. Secondly, if someone is undoubtably metagaming, tell one of the ST's, and we'll deal with it.

Ok, I wasn't even at the game last Saturday and I'm dissappointed with the players. The plot had better not be just "everyone jump the Cam". This is stupid and pointless and I wont storytell for people that want to play that way. Use your brains and imagination. All a storyteller can do is provide some side stories and a few npc's when they are needed. The sabbat were given thier characters with the understanding that they were "experienced players" and are there to give the others something to think about in addition to everything else... not to be the only storyline. The festivals of the last SEVERAL weeks have breached the masqurade to such an extent that they will be hunted down and killed at the discression of any storyteller. There will not be any more sabbat characters or Giovanni until we have a story teller meeting where all the storytellers are present. It was agreed to at the beginning of this session that if it wasn't working we would remove the sabbat and giovanni all together as available genre's to play. Almost all of the Camarilla players are new or inexperienced players. There will also be no more elder characters without all the storytellers approval.. this includes Jacobs new character. I want to see it before I'll include it in my stories. I believe this is the best larp I've ever been in, but its going downhill fast.

Most of all, Have fun or else there isnt going to be a larp. Its a game for entertainment and even if a small amount of players feel personnally attacked and insulted... they wont come and the larp will have about 10 people and no storytellers.

Best wishes to you all and see you next saturday.

Correction... any healling of lethal or aggrivated takes all your activity for the round.

About the healing, you must also spend a willpower plus the three blood to heal aggrivated damage. Healing lethal or aggrivated takes an entire turn to perform regardless of how much blood you can spend in a turn... (if you spend 3 blood you heal three lethal in one turn but any healing takes up all activity for the round)

Bishop Jason~

I find it amusing that you tell me had we signed the treaty that we would have been taken care of. It seems that certain members of those that have signed the treaty with you were left off of the "cure list". Also ... ::chuckle:: I thought that Wilheim signed the treaty, or is the Sabbat actually saying that his siggie was null and void now? Whew, I thought things were confusing before... Juju, you want to put a bounty on my head? ::laughs:: Im only worth $20,000 to you? Considering that I told you to leave instead of yanking your ass inside to stake you after you delivered our little Malk friend to us the other night? I dont know you, Juju. You dont know me. But if you wanna put a bounty on my head, thats fine. ::chuckle:: Where do you want the bodies returned to?

Sarah

You know, I really take offence to whomever it was that said that the Cam couldnt RP without metagaming? I, for one, have never metagamed since I started LARPing, and I admit, there are times that it is really hard to keep straight the things that you know in and out of character. Generalizations are not appriciated. Please keep them to yourself.

HOLD ON!! WAIT A MINUITE!! who said the game was almost over? It can't be over yet. It's just starting to get fun. Hey that big cheese Bru-ha chick is supposed to be the leader of their side right? Just to keep things intresting I will put a bounty of $10,000, no $20,000 on the head of anyone that is responsible for her demise. All you would be assassins this gives you something to think about dosen't it. Do you know anyone that wouldn't sell you out for $20,000? Until next time ....PARTY ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sarah, It is quite unfortunate that you "think" someone loyal to you is working on a cure for this vile disease that has perpertrated your city. I know there is a cure, unfortunate for you, you are not on the list of those who will be recieving it. I suppose you really did make the wrong decision. *shrug* Too bad for you.

I think its pretty funny that the Cam cant even roleplay without the meda Gaming, and all there spinny shit

Tis a sad day when the Sabbat outplays the Camarilla in the influence game. Even worse, they are winning in a blowout, with the game nearly over. . .

Addendum to Generation stuff: If your generation is lowered after creation you receive no additional flaws, at least as far as I'm concerned.

regarding the generation thing, is that only at character creation, or is that an immediately flaw that is gained if one attains that generation in game? Not that I would ever diablarize anyone, of course...

Its Story time, do you remember when the cam attacks Vince once before and he did nothing about it? Do you remember attacking our influences? Shooting Cars doesnt breaka treaty compared to your actions.

Working on a cure indeed...*sigh* you unfortunately chose the bed you lie in sarah. Had you and the camarilla joined the council, you're kind would have been safe. The sabbat was well aware of the disease before its outbreak, and took proper measures to protect ourselves from it. The same goes for the inquisition, which we found out about well before they showed themselves saturday. If the camarilla were part of the council network, they would have been warned of upcoming threats. *shrug* I would ask all camarilla to consider this; had your prince opted for peace instead of war, your sect would have been relatively safe and could have benefitted greatly from the information network possessed by the council. The choice not to, coupled with an extreme lack of intellegence gathering abilities within your sect, has doomed you by your own hand. An amusing irony, indeed.

One last thing, this is something I forgot about on Saturday. From now on we will be running healing as such: Healing bashing damage is considered a reflexive action(i.e. It doesn't take a turn to heal it, but you still need to spend the necessary blood points), and it can be healed on a one for one basis(I know this differs from what the book says, but deal with it.) Lethal damage requires a full turn to heal. If you have Swiftness or higher, you CANNOT take another action if you are healing. Aggravated wounds require full concentration as per lethal. However, if you can't spend 3 blood a round, you can't heal an aggravated wound in one round either. So says the Rules Monkey.

Concerning the death of Vincent Giovanni: Vince himself broke the treaty when he shot up the cars of the Camarilla members that were in the area. There was no provocation for his actions. Dominic, I would like to meet with you regarding the will, yes. To Ken: I understand that you an indeed an Elder Toreador, and this is fine and dandy, but you know NOTHING of what is going on in this city, aside of the things that you have perhaps been told. *I* am the Prince of this city, and if you continue to step on my toes, and go over my head on certain issues, then we are going to have a real problem. Anyone who wishes to meet regarding issues of the Camarilla needs to be meeting with *me*. There have been no breeches of the Camarilla-Giovanni treaty as far as I am concerned. The incident with Vincent was unfortunate, but even the Giovanni family knows that he was a hothead, and didnt always act in the best interest of the Giovanni family. Ken, I would not expect you to know that, as you were not in the city for some of the earlier instances with Vince. You are here to observe. I welcomed you to the city. I suggest you do just that. Observe. Take your reports back to the other Elders. Let the ones that live her and serve the Camarilla in this city do what it is that we are supposed to do, which is reclaim it for the Camarilla. As far as this disease.. we are working on the cure as quickly as we can. Just hang on.. be cautious, and stay safe.

Sarah Buchannan, Camarilla Prince of Lansing

Were dieing! god damnit Sarah HELP US

I have to say, *cough* this disease sucks...

At 8th generation, you lose a humanity/path rating OR receive a derangement, not both, sorry about that. You still get the 3 pt flaw though.

Here are the generation flaw mechanics were using from now on. At tenth generation, you can take any negative trait you want, for which you get no additional freebie points. At 9th generation, you receive a 1 point flaw and a negative trait of ST choosing. At 8th generation, you either lose 1 humanity/path rating, receive a derangement, and the ST's will dish out a 3 point flaw. If you want justification for any of this, feel free to E-mail me with questions.

Ken, Perhaps you could contacts me at this Number (Gives you Number-email) from the actions that have been taken so far with the Death of Vincent, things are not lookin to good if you know what i mean, i could meet you at Vincent's Funeral if you wish, we could talk business. Please contact me.

Ken, Perhaps you could contacts me at this Number (Gives you Number-email) from the actions that have been taken so far with the Death of Vincent, things are not lookin to good if you know what i mean, i could meet you at Vincent's Funeral if you wish, we could talk business. Please contact me.

To the Giovanni, I apologize for the actions of the Camarilla kindred of this city, most seem to young and rebelous to understand the true consequences of what they do. For your knowledge I am an elder of clan Toreador, and Ive been sent here by the Camarilla, hopefully to reorganize. So far I have noticed several actions that seem detrimental to treaties signed years ago. I hope this one can be made up for without a large war. Inform me of what would be suitable compensation for this crime, and I will provide you with such, if it is in my power. I thank you for your time.

Greetings everyone, first thing i would like to cover is my Brother Vincent's death on Saturday. I was close to my brother and i know he was a short fused man, but his word always stood. So he decided to shoot some cars up, so you kill him and break the Treaty that the Cam and the Giovanni have had for years? Vincents actions is what got him killed, he wasnt all there upstairs. I am somewhat upset that my youngest brother is no longer with me but I cannot babysit 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Ms.Buchannan i would like perhaps a phone conversation with you concerning Vincent, I was looking through his Wills, and he had you willed to one of his establishments as 50% owner, we will have to discuss this. Any Friends of Vincent and all Camarilla members are all invited to Venice this thursday for his funeral. Transportation will be provided at Detroit Metro Airport to and from Venice, you will be landing in Venice at the Vienna International Airport, your stay is your business and not my family's concern. I Bid you good day and have a wonderful evening Dominic Giovanni

Out of character. You are all invited to a pizza party at 1118 N. Walnut street this Friday at 8:00pm. Please bring any pizza toppings that you would like on pizza. See ya there.

Hey everyone!!! I heard about this blood hunty thingy and I just wanted to give my blessing to this little venture. To help kick off this little hunting party I wanted to throw a little party of my own. BYOB on top of the gerbal cage or habitrail at sundown. See ya there. PARTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I received some rather...amusing news that you are apparently interested in staking Ju-Ju. I found this news to be...humorous, to say the least. Why by the word of Caine would you wish to stake Ju-Ju of all people?

If anyone has a copy of Kindred Most Wanted or Rage Across Russia and wouldn't mind letting me borrow their copy, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

I WILL be running a Sabbot demo sunday at the fortress promptly at noon. Those of you who wish to see how the "other side" works please feel free to participate. You will be playing a pack faced with a "mystery". See how the sabbott police there own! Can you solve the "mystery" before the dawn spells your demise? All these questions will be answered this sunday...

Hey again all. I'm sorry to spring this so late, but I *won't* be running the hunter demo tommorrow. Too many other commitments, I'm afraid. My apologies to any who were planning on attending. The demo will likely be rescheduled for next week some time; for those who are interested, feel free to email me about it. I'll post something on the board as soon as I know the date and time I'll be running. Thanks.

Hey people, it's me the Asian! I'm quite possibly going to play tomorrow, and attempt a return to LARP. No ideas on a character, yet. But any suggestions would be much appreciated. And any "spinny" suggestions must scratch Blodgett's head!!! E-mail me at my address below.

We have a couple important announcements we need to make tomorrow of the administrative sort. Please be on time, i.e. at Fortress by 7PM.

The earthquakes mentioned in the Bishop's post did indeed happen. For those of you living outside the direct center of the city though they were relatively unnoticable. Damage was slight and the few casualties have been dealt with.

I will be at the Fortress tonight if anybody needs a ride. Look for me around 7:30pm. Any questions call 336-9153. Thanks!

To Giovanni representative.

A representative of the corporation would like to meet with you on Saturday. If you are interested in a co existence in this city you will meet with him at The former Redfang bar in East Lansing at 8pm. He looks forward to meeting with you. Until Saturday,

Just a reminder that Pyle and I are having a party tonight at 8pm. Directions are a few posts down. Any questions, call me at 505-8384(cell) or call us at home 336.9153 after 4pm today.

My sincere thanks for those of you who go unheard by your own accord. Your sublime patience and quiet knowledge no doubt gives insight to the chaos that engulfs this place. Bred from the kine and their rat race we carry that baggage with us into immortality and paronia. So much so that it is too easy to focus on the mere simplicity of survival that we forget to live and loose any purpose or noble cause as well as our place among them. We then dilute ourselves thinking "that's not really me", "I'm above that", or pretending not to care. Pride piled on pride, infinately convinced that we can do no wrong, that it is others outside of ourselves who are the living blights and our importance is eternaly preserved. I ask you, how do we start? When?

Hey guys I know I'm new to this larp, but please lets not get political. Thats how the last one broke up,with people being upsett about how things were being ran. Like stated earler even if we were all cam we would have conflict, between coterys, insted of sects. From what I can tell people are trying to play fare,with little medigameing,or cheating. Besides if you don't like an other cherictor just kill them in game if you can.

Hey, everybody! Just in case the guy who plays the Malkavian named Ascants(is this the right spelling), pleaseconatct me thru e-mail. I have a question regarding teaching you some stuff if you'll teach me some stuff. Thanks. Jeff aka Bart Davis

Don't use the E-mail below.. I apparently need to take my own advice and proofread my own posts. ::sigh::

First off, whoever posted as a WENDIGO should learn how to correctly spell the Tribe's name, in addition to GAIA. They should also realize how many and what kind of Lupines are currently in Lansing, and I can garuntee none of them are Wendigo. Also, I sincerely hope that it either Pyle, Dave, or Seth that posted as said Wendigo.

Listen here Fiend, you have disturbed my slumber by rubbing your claws across Geia's bones. Stop this foolishness now or bury the city as you claim to be able to. If you do, pray to whatever devil you serve that I can't claw my way out. For if I do, I will hunt you to the ends of the earth and stain my talons with the ichor that fills your veins. Which ever you do, do one, 'cause if you harm so much as a sappling in this saccred land during your posturing, me and mine will have you.

hey all. Assuming Eric agrees, I'll be running a hunter: the reckoning demo starting at 1pm on saturday. If you're iterested, just stop on in..

ummm...dave, just to give you a guess in case Adam hasn't yet, I'm assuming that koldunic sorcery...

::blinks as the quake suddenly stops, and sighs in relief, as she darts to the store for Earthquake supplies:: Lets see.. I need batteries and flashlights and canned food and bottled water, and blood...yes....blood for Sarah.. and catfood..and ...::The mumbling continues as she makes her way out the door and into the car::

For those that are wondering, we are in a literal kind of timestop over the Earthquake until our storyteller meeting on Thursday. We'll let you know as soon as we can about the outcome.

OOC: This is for Nate and Mike Ruyle. Did you guys get the invites for the listserv? I sent 'em a couple days ago...

Hello everyone. I don't know if you are all familiar with the White Wolf Java Chats. They are an excellent way of roleplaying with all the pluses and negatives of multiple genre roleplays.

Anyway, I've been chatting there for awhile and I have a major scene planned tomorrow evening at 9p.m. There has been major chaos amongst the werewolves and several are VERY upset with the insanity of the Alpha werewolf, a Black Fury named Sian. I ask that you join me 9p.m. at the Fairgrounds room, on the WW Java chat and I'll tell you more about the scene. Look for Lucas Blackstone.

You should have an actual character written up for this. In any genre but beware the munchkins out there.

If anyone has any contacts within the food industry, I am attempting to purchase a large amount of gelatin, more commonly referred to as Jell-O. Please contact me if you have ways of getting several hundred pounds of this substance.

Yours in science,
Dr. Alexander Fairchild

I have sad news. I have decided at this time to leave this city of Lansing. My on again/ off again relationship with this city the last 3 years has been interesting to say the least. At this time however, it is in my best interest to part ways. The ever growing chaos of this city is not good for business. Therefore, I am moving the corporate office of Oldsmobile from Lansing to Detroit. I will oversee the transition and Timothy will take over the remaining Giovanni businesses in Lansing. This is my finally farewell Lansing; may Cain have mercy on you.

Adam... e-mail me regarding the EarthQuake power just used. Details such as where it is in the books would be quite helpful.

I suggest you desist with your ignorant blather. The Camarilla must indeed be desparate to appoint such as you to the position of Archon, a mere ancilla. As for our other territories being similar to Mexico City, you really do need to get out more. Barcelona and Madrid both hold marvelous works of art, both in sabbat control. Scandanavia has some of the most cordial, attractive, and delicious kine in the world, under our control. Your propoganda is not working, Carlos. (OOC - level 4.5 quake shakes Lansing) I trust you all felt that one. Please inform Carlos if he continues to insult something he has been brainwashed into hating, I will remove my sect mates from Lansing and then bury it.

Also, Mike Ruyle (Timothy Giovanni) and Myself invite you all to our Apartment Warming Party this friday at 8pm! We are located in the Brandy Wine Creek apartment complex. Once you are in East Lansing, go to Hagadorn road. Take Hagadorn road North past Lake Lansing Road. You will come to a four way stop (Birch run rd.) go through it. Take the second street on your left.(it is unnamed) This street well split off in a "Y", take a right. (Mellingway rd) Take this road till it ends and park! We are in building number 6162, Apartment G-2. I am thinking of meeting people at the Fortress Friday night around 7:30pm and leading a group over to the apartment. Please e-mail me with any questions at the address below. See you Friday!

For those of you who were not present at Theio's after the game on Saturday, I have been named "Independent Storyteller." All of you who are playing characters who are not aligned with either the cam or sabbat need to send your downtime to the address below. I would also like a copy of your character history if you still have it. I will be doing player elated plots with a touch o' white wolf cannon thrown in for flavoring. However, I strongly believe that right now there is enough going on in the city to keep your characters interested. The current storyteller structure then is:

Dave Beck- Overlord

Seth Garner- Cam Storyteller

Adam Bomb- Sabbat Storyteller

Aaron "Pyle" Ledger- Independent clan Storyteller

*sigh* Carlos, your elders really needed to do a better job of educating you. In regards to your "accusation" that we are willing to destroy Lansing to achieve our goals, I believe I will use an expression of the cattle, namely "duh". Unlike your pathetic sect, we of the sabbat do not try to mask our intentions. We are involved in what is referred to as the "jyhad" (that's JEE-had), which involves war between our two sects. This city is expendable to the sabbat meaning I can and will destroy it if it is in the best interests of my sect. However, the best interests of my sect are to make this city neutral territory. I will not dupe the vampires who read this as you have Carlos. I am aware of the war that is going on on the East coast, and where my sect's resources lie presently. While we have the numbers and power to take the city and make it our own, such a battle would likely leave us with too few numbers to rule the city effectively, and most of the power base in the city in shambles. Ergo, I am left with two options: make this a neutral city so the sabbat and others can utilize its value for our sects (a proposition, I might add, that is endorsed by the sabbat leadership above me) or annihilate the city and make sure its resources are available to none. *shrug* that is the way of our war. As for your claims of encirclement and destruction Carlos, let me be the first to welcome and encourage as many powerful camarilla kindred to the city as you can bring. Bring them all, I say. *laughs* you still fail to see it, don't you Carlos? By its very nature, if what you propose to do happens, WE STILL WIN! We sacrifice our resources in an insignificant town in the middle of Michigan. In return, we tie up troops desperately needed on the East coast for your sect, further bolstering our assaults there. By all means, call your purge. It benefits us just as much as peace does.

(OOC - leve 4 earthqauke): I suggest you hold your tongue, Camarilla whelp, or your beloved Lansing will fall into a fissure.

Sometimes my short fuse gets the better of me. I must realize that you all need to hear the entire story and it is not in the City's best interest to make it the center of this conflict. The Sabbat have already demonstrated that they are willing to destroy the city if they can with last week's foolishness. I need not say more on that really, if the Kindred need direct evidence that the Sabbat were behind the attacks last week it will be made available shortly. Perhaps that doesn't matter to some of you. It matters to me. That is why threats of attacks upon the city infuriate me so much. While I have moved on, Lansing is still my home in many ways and I will protect it unto death if need be.

And another thing occurs to me as I ignore the pathetic wart that is the Archbishop of Detroit (all you have to do is think of the areas he's described in the same terms as Mexico City). I have been thinking on why the Sabbat have devoted so many of their resources to this area. Perhaps they have begun to realize, all too belatedly I hope, that the Camarilla *are* making progress in the midwest. This recent destruction begins to make sense when one considers the rank and file Sabbat Arch-Bishop's philosophy. Slash and burn.

To be honest, I cannot promise to prevent all the destruction the deranged Sabbat can cook up. However, I assure you all that once Detroit is in our hands the Arch-Bishop of Nowhere will trouble you no further.

I fear you over-estimate the Camarilla, esteemed Archon. Hardly half of Europe is under the control of the Camarilla. We control most of Spain, Portugal, Scandanavia, and everything east of Germany to Russia - Caine bless Velya, Rustovich and Radu. As for Detroit, unless you want a repeat of the chaos in Lansing, I suggest you tell your comrades to leave before the hoardes of Vozhds I've created are unleashed on your pitiful resistence. Should I desire, I could level this entire pathetic STATE(OOC - Lansing gets hit with a level 3 earthquake). Quite simply, Carlos, an all out war with any of the Camarilla here is a waste of time. Perhaps you should take the treaty Dresden signed as a blessing?

Shame on you Willhelm for supporting the treaty. Look at the situation the city is in. Martial law AGAIN. 300 kine dead. Emergency declared. For god sakes, do something! I know that you know that this is not the work of the Camarilla. I think you know who might be responsible. I will soon find out that information for certain myself, but it could be made much simpler with your aid. Also, if it is as I suspect another Archon could make the difference. I pray your heart is in the right place.

Without giving too much away I can tell those sitting on the fence this. The Camarilla is perfectly ready, willing and able to encircle and crush this cell of miscreants which has been a thorn in the side of the Masquerade too long. It is the largest, strongest and most populous sect of vampires in the world. All of Europe, large tracts of North and South America, even sections of the Far East are under Camarilla control. Chicago is Camarilla and even Detroit is being reclaimed, in part because of the efforts of the Kindred of Lansing.

I hope this purge does not come to pass. You can be assured that I am doing my utmost to delay my elders who have little knowledge or vested interest in the individual Kindred who live here. Mexico City is just as far away from Lansing as Europe is however, and I can say, having survived in Mexico City for decades, a Camarilla loyal kindred among others, that the Sabbat have even less interest in whether any of you continue to survive.

While I'm on the topic of Mexico City think on it a moment. The Sabbat capital is a disgrace. Most of the Sabbat Kindred there are no better, groveling around for scraps under the shadow of the Bishops and Cardinals. Even there though there are Kindred that are dissatisfied with the irresponsible handling of mortal affairs that is considered "fun and games" by the Sabbat elite. We are truly empowered beings, capable of great or low deeds unmatched. That is all the preaching I have in me. Continue to support the Sabbat and Lansing will become yet another example of wasted potential. Take charge of your city as a responsible Kindred, regardless of sect, and Lansing will flourish and thrive.

Lansing AP- Earlier this afternoon, a press conference was called in Ann Arbor, Michigan, in which the Dean of the University of Michigan revealed some startling news. "It is my sad duty to report that the fires and riots that took place in Lansing, Michigan last night were caused by several students of the University of Michigan. This morning, three of the ringleaders came to me at my home, distraught, and revealed to me what they had done. They confided in me that they were merely trying to make MSU look bad on the eve of their win over Utah." he announced. The students, whose names are being withheld, are presently in the custody of the Ann Arbor Police Department. One of the students released a statement to a press official shortly after the press conference. "We had no idea that things would get as out of hand as they did." he said. "We wanted to make MSU look bad after they won. We didnt know that people would die." All 8 of the students involved in the incident have been suspended and are in custody. The sunset curfew and martial law will be lifted as soon as investigations are complete.

To Jason: Thank you. I hope that we can continue to have such a successful business relationship as you did with Georgio. I look forward to attending this meeting. If you have any further business, please contact me. I believe that you are aware of how to from receiving your messages in the past.

To Malcom: I hope that you and I can also have good business dealings. Please contact me if you need anything.

To Sarah: I heard that you basically refused to take part of the treaty that was signed last night. I have also heard that the nosferatu signed the treaty in your stead and that this is a valid signature. I do hope that we can start out on the right foot and avert further threats of war. I am aware that you wish to secure a supply of “nutrients”, for you and yours. As I had previously discussed with some of yours, I am willing to supply such, at no cost, and no hidden agenda as long as you stay out of my hospitals and leave my health influence alone. Apparently this message never reached your ears. I would have delivered it personally if you would have allowed me to contact you. If this sounds like a good deal to you, or even if it does not, please contact me so that we can reach a mutual arrangement.

To all others: I hope that the treaty that was signed last night will allow us to live in relative peace and harmony. In Georgio’s stead, I am now head of all Giovanni in Mid-Michigan. If you have anything that you need me for, please, contact me.

Don Giovanni

Head of Giovanni - Mid Michigan Realm

To the camarilla as a whole: I feel it is necessary to inform you of what has been going on in the city. Given that Carlos proved himself to be a brainwashed dupe of the elders last night, and he apparently leads a faction of your sect, I feel the record should be set straight, so those of you not in the thrall of the antideluvians can possibly make an intellegent decision here. A treaty was signed last night, making Lansing a neutral city, governed by a council from each of the vampiric factions residing here. The camarilla has signed as well, under the providence of the nosferatu archon. As of right now, the seat for the camarilla is being held by the archon, until a representative is chosen by the camarilla for the representative. I also wish to address an accusation made by Carlos that the sabbat was responsible for all the bombings and destruction in the city. To this I reply with a resounding, "I don't care". Carlos' opinion of me is irrelevant, as is the rest of the camarilla's. If you want to blame the sabbat for all the chaos in the city, fine. We blew up everything, personally killed all 300 cattle who died, etc. etc. Does that make you feel better? If you wish to place blinders on yourself, and only see the world as our attacks on you, so be it. The sabbat is aware of some of the groups behind most of the chaos in the city, something that serves to help us to be prepared for their attacks. If you wish to ignore the enemies creeping up to stab you in the back simply because of a knee-jerk reaction against us, so be it. You will die, and then we have one less dupe of the antideluvians to deal with. Now, on to matters of the treaty. You of course have the perogative to make your own decision to follow or resist the treaty of this city; each choice, however, has its own consequences. Joining the triumverate rule means agreeing once and for all that the camarilla does not and cannot claim full rulership of this city. Resisting means you face not only war with the sabbat, giovanni, and other independents, but also with a faction of your own sect who *do* support peace. And, if you believe that there will be some sort of "purge" of the city by the justicar council in a few weeks to restore rule, you are excedingly naive. There is a war on the east coast right now, involving *legions* of sabbat and camarilla. The justicars and archons are not about to divert shock troops from the east coast to defend lansing, a podunk city in the middle of sabbat territory. Even if they were so stupid, such an action still results in failure for the camarilla; even one of your own sect can tell you that should a large portion of the camarilla's generals and lieutenants (ie the justicars and archons) descend to purge the city, every sabbbat from Michigan to Canada will flock here to wipe out the camarilla leadership, further strengthening our war. I am sorry to inform you of this, but you are not getting rid of us, nor are you as a sect going to be able to hold this city as its exclusive domain. You now have the choice of taking a position within the new leadership, or refusing and losing all power you hold within the city, to be hunted down when you become too much of an annoyance to the new rulers.

To Villem: There are certain matters that the council needs to speak on during this week. If the camarilla has not picked another representative, I would ask you or Dr. Fairchild to fill the seat of camarilla representative until they do. To Timothy: congratulations. Of course, you presence would be required as well. Malcolm, I would also like you to attend, so your status as well as the pack you lead can be discussed. I have an...idea about that, one I think you would enjoy. In any case, please contact me as soon as possible. Thank you.

After a long discussion with several people, I don't think restructuring the game(again) would solve anything. We allowed multiple groups because a lot of people wanted the Sabbat and Independents included. For reasons I won't discuss, it was working very well up until about 5 weeks ago. Now, people are upset about game balance. Well, would it be any different if everyone played a Camarilla loyal character? Probably not, the same people that play non-Cam would form coteries, resulting in tension between coteries. Anyway, it comes down to whether people are enjoying themselves. If they aren't, we'll try and fix it. If they are, we'll stay out of they're business.

In what can only be explained as utter chaos and destruction, Lansing, Michigan, became the center of a maelstrom of disorder. Over 300 deaths, many being in extreme horror, took place. Also, 9-12 fires were started and spread out around the city. Several riots subsequently broke out. Police had to apprehend several people who were running rampant, adding to the problem. In response to the events during the week, Governor Engler declared martial law in Ingham Country and President Clinton has declared the county in a state of emergency. A curfew of sundown has been established, with a $100 penalty and a night in jail being the result of disobeying. As long as residents are traveling in a vehicle, they will not be arrested. Several students have filed withdrawl forms for Michigan State and Lansing Community College, but until the police with the aid of the FBI has solved what happened, none will be allowed to leave the area. Lastly, near the end of all the horrible events, several occult symbols were discovered. Police officials are unsure as to whether they are related or they were just coincidentally placed in the same area.

Yup, got just wut ya wunned Mr. Reaper. 15 tuns uf taters, just like you tuld Mr. Steve tuh tell us. Yuh gunna eat all uf em here, or you wunt em deliverd sumwheres?

Sabbat: The Reaper has arrived. I hope you have done what I ask, otherwise, Final Death will be blessing for you.

Esteemed Doctor~

The former Prince of Lansing, upon stepping down, called upon his Seneschal to become Prince in his stead. The former Seneschal accepted that responsibility. When the Prince is no longer able to perform the duties of the Princedom, it is the duty of the Seneschal to assume aforementioned duties. The announcement was made on the board for all of the Kindred to see, and I accepted on the board for all of the Kindred to see. No one BUT me stepped forth and claimed that position at the time that it was vacated. Therefore... ::sighs:: That makes me Prince. Really, I grow tired of all of this bickering among the Camarilla of the city. We have bigger wars to fight than those among ourselves. I hope that you will all realize that. Until tonight.

Sarah Buchannan, Camarilla Prince of Lansing

Hey, to all those playing sabbat tonight, if ya want paint, come to Joy and Jeremy's by 6pm...

Dear Ms. Buchanon
Just as a point of clarification. The laws of our sect claim nothing about the declaration of Princes, merely precedents, however, I would like to educate you on two points. By claiming to be prince you are merely invoking the tradition of domain and claiming this city as your domain. This is gut so long as it is uncontested, yet I must tell you that words claiming domain are hollow. I could claim to Prince as easily as you (which I have no intention of doing!) but without the support of the kindred behind me I would be nothing but a usurper. Be careful what titles you affect before there is certainty Ms. Buchanon. The domain of this city may not be as easy to claim as mere words are to speak.
Yours in the Glory of the Camarilla,
Wilim Von Dresden

NEW E-MAIL ALERT!!! I am cancelling AOL. This e-mail is my primary e-mail for all subjects. LARP related and non-LARP related. Thank you for your time. This message will self destruct in 5...4...3...2...1...

And to add to Adam's post: I'd suggest you check out the sabbat's views on the Giovanni. They do deal with them when they need or want to. Sure, they may be serving an antideluvian, and sooner or later, they'll be "dealt with" in the sabbat's perspective. However, they're not as imminent of a threat as the camarilla, who a) have far more power and control throughout the world, and b) presumably serve 7 (or now 6) antideluvians, rather than one. Yeah, the sabbat is inhuman and violent, but people too often take that to mean stupid. Of course the sabbat has been willing to work the giovanni in the city. Its increased the influence and power of both groups, and has as been noted further decreased the hold of the cam within the city. Given the results, it seems pretty clear from the sabbat perspective that its been a pretty profitable arrangement.

There's obviously a misconception about the sabbat from the last person to post. Yes, the sabbat is for the most part a militant group. However, bloodthirsty pyschos, they are not. Well, the Salubri Antitribu and Harbingers of Skull might be, but anyway. Would maniacs be able to covertly spy on a group, put together a coherent plan of assault, and strike? I think not. Also, while the sabbat preaches freedom, if one steps out of line, they get beaten down, physically or otherwise, from their superiors, not a loss of status. Lastly, the sabbat do not WANTONLY diablerize, they do it for a reason. Whether it be to enhance their generation, the result of a successful War Party, or the victim of a Wild Hunt, the Amaranth is never a wanton act. The sabbat are creatures that have given up their humanity and revel in their vampiric nature. They are fighting in a Jyhad against an enemy that is too dumb to realize what they don't believe in is going to come eat them very soon.

Ok its time for Mr Loudmouth to put in his $1.25. I find the situation to be a bit dishearting for the Cammie players espically since for the most part the Cammies are dwindling down more and more as time progresses. I like the concept of the three groups but feel that for the balance has been shifted in the game to such a degree by the Sabbat/Giovanni Compromise. Should this happen, lets see some conversation from the bargining table. Ok let me get this straight, your a bunch of crazy psycho's who want to destroy everyone that dosent beleive that Cain is good and the Antidulvians are going to destory us all. Not only that you wantenly diablerize anything that dosent belong to your sect. Uh huh... you have a problem with that? You openly serve your Antidulvian with whom which you want to bring about Ghenna and deal in the pathitic world of Human business. You want to rule the world with influnce and Ghosts not your Cain given right as a Vampire. umm sure... Psycho's I dont get why this works? i mean shouldnt the Giovanni sympathize more with the Camarilla with which they have a similar style then with a group that would stab them in the back faster then you can say Lickstick? Personally i think none of the groups should be working together on such a destructive basis because its very likely to turn on them once they are done. I like the politics i seen i liked the Scene with the sabbat begining at the end of the night. Personally i think the best course of action is balance out the Sects and Giovanni so that there is a fair amount of each group and get away from the blood combat.

I vote for fun. Spinny fun, but fun nonetheless.

'kay, this is completely OOC, but I feel some explanation is in order as to why the idea of a neutral city has come up. Basically, in looking at how LARP has gone, we're faced with something of a dilemma. From an IC standpoint, the cam who are supposed to be running the city, are at a major disadvantage to the gios and the sabbat, to a degree in numbers, but also in influences and other key areas. This leads to the dreaded "sabbat/cam" wars in which we sit around and play paper-rock-scissors all night. This idea was meant to help avoid that, and ironically *increase* the amount of role-playing going on. Think about it: all of a sudden, characters from both sides of the war are forced to actually deal with one another as individuals, rather than impersonal enemies. Plus, it would allow us to stop worrying about capping groups or whatever; new characters could play whichever group they wanted without having to worry about the cam, or the sabbat, or the giovanni having too few numbers. *shrug* in the end its an idea, and an IC one. If PCs go for it, then it'll happen, if they don't, it won't. I think it would solve a lot of problems OOC and IC, but that's just me. Do whatever you as a player and the character your playing would do. Oh, and in regards to Pyle's post, yes, I'm actually having fun at LARP. Anyone else?

You really should review your history childe. A group forcing another to the bargaining table are called victors, not dictators. Or do you think the third reich went meekly to negotiate peace because the allies asked them to? *sigh* I must give credit to the camarilla; they have done a good job brainwashing you. Consider this, childe: Your city lies in the heart of sabbat territory. We have all the information, numbers, and skill we need to make this city our own should we choose to. Why haven't we? Could it be that *gasp* we don't WANT it to be a sabbat city? I hate to tread on your demise, dear sarah, but Lansing is hardly New York. It serves a far more useful purpose to us as a neutral port of call than as a besieged city under our exclusive reign. And as for your other point, there have been neutral cities in the past and in the present. Not many, but a few. It is hardly impossible to make this a neutral city, should people wish it to be so. As for the problems between the traditions of our kind, of course there will be friction. This is part of life; if you want a happy, lovey-dovey world, I suggest you go play one of those silly "Live action role playing games" the truly pathetic among the kine are so fond of. There is a reason that a council will rule the city: to deal with such problems as they arise. In teh end it is your choice, but I would suggest your time would be better spent in building the city in peace than dying in a war.

Here is my opinion. I personally like the game now. Yes, there are more Sabbat than Camarilla, but then again, Lansing is a ciry under seige, yes? Baltimore has fallen, and so this was the logical place for the Sabbat to come next. As for the number of Giovanni, yes, it did get a lil large, but it can still be played. My opinion is this.. The Camarilla are the underdogs here. We are fighting to hold this city, to preserve the Camarilla way of life. The fact that we are outnumbered just makes us have to think a lil more, and be a bit more sneaky instead of all out frontal assaults. Yes, there could be a bit more really good RPing scenes. I know that I have been in a few that were so totally not seen that it wasnt funny. I know that John and Pookah can attest to what I am talking about. But, on the other hand, the STs cant be everywhere to see everyones scenes at the same time! There are how many of us and how many of them, yes? This chapter of the LARP is approaching critical mass. The pressure is in the red. I know that I have sat around here ALL week thinking about what I can and cant do in such and such supposed situations. What can Sarah do to prevent war? What can Sarah do to set things straight? Today has been HELL. I get up to see that Malcom has resigned as Prince, and so, Sarah does the only thing that she can do, she retakes the throne. She's being attacked on all sides, accused of things that she didnt do, and yes, I admit, I have done my more than fair share of utter and complete bitching this week. I know that Dave and Seth are tired of hearing about it from me. Okay ... Ive rambled here. ::chuckle:: Lets get down to the serious LARPing that I know we all are capable of. We agreed when we met to do a single genre. We are doing that now, its too late in the game to switch again for this plot line. Lets just all do the best that we can with what we have. And if the Cam looses the good fight, and Lansing falls, then maybe we come back in later and try to take it back! Who the hell knows! Im having a freakin blast here!! Sarah has NEVER seen so much action.

Lisa

Just for the record ... I had nothing to do with the burning of Georgio Giovanni's Haven. This is the first that I have heard about it. I had wondered what it was that the Archon was talking about when he said "killing their servants does constitute a breach on the camarilla side of the treaty, promising to not harm the giovanni. I'd suggest an apology is in order..."

Now I know. Again, I had nothing to do with that at all. Don Giovanni, as I wrote you in a letter, would you apologize for actions that you took by order of your superior? Or would you stand proudly in knowing that you did as you were ordered? I have never wanted a war with the Giovanni. When you came here, you were more than polite to me, as well as respectful. I would like to think that I was the same to you. My suggestion would be for the two of us to speak, and figure out who it is that tries so desperately to tear the Giovanni away from peace with the Camarilla of this city.

Sarah Buchannan, Camarilla Prince of Lansing

Well here is my two cents. I was originally for the split group idea. I still think it could work but there has been a couple of problems. First the "other" group (which includes me) got too large. I understand people not wanting to play cam 'cause I didn't want to but sometime sacrifices must be made for the betterment of the LARP. I have talked to many players who told me that if needed they would play Cam characters. However, I must ask the question, why should we? So far the complaints I have heard is

1) Not enough player co operation.

2) Not enough character development and well role played sceens

Sarah,

I suggest you listen to your superiors in this case. Giovanni do not recognize domain, period. You have no authority to corner me into any city, be it Okemos or Lansing. I am in control of the Giovanni family interest in the Mid Michigan region and you shall not dictate to me where my interests shall lie. You ask what crimes you have committed. Last week assaults were made against our influence and holdings in the city. These assaults were ordered by you. In addition to these assults my haven was assaulted by unknown forces and partially burned. I have no proof that you were involved with the latter but I know you were responsible for the attacks on my influences and holdings. Those are the actions that broke the treaty. Listen to your superiors Sarah, apologize to me. Why are you so stubborn? Even your former prince desires peace in this city! Your fellow Cam members all approach me to stop this war. Your archons write you and tell you to apologize. The complete destruction of all of your holdings can be prevented by a simple public apology admitting you were wrong and broke a treaty that has stood for thousands of years. This simple act prevents an all out war. I employee you to do so. Until Saturday,

OH Is there a plot the we could all comtogrther on or is it the survival of the fitest plot

The reason we have three groups of vampires is because several people probably wouldn't have played in an all vampire game unless they were allowed to play an independent or Sabbat. I don't think a game not being smooth is a bad thing. I'm more concerned with whether people are having a good time and having fun. If not, and a majority feel this way, we can change things a bit.

Also, there are three ways to remove a Prince. To quote Malcom ... Ask me and see if I will step down. Call a conclave and have me removed. Fight me for it, and hope that you win. Any action involving the naming of a new Prince by said calling of dissolved council by the FORMER Harpy is null and void. There is no council, save Faire, Casey, Alex, and Ahara.

Sarah Buchannan

With the desolving of the Council last Saturday night, which several were present for, there is no longer a Harpy, my friend. Choose your words wisely.

Sarah

For all those who feel that we need to talk I will be holding cort at the MSU Union Staurday. WE WILL BE NAMING A NEW PRINCE.

WE WILL NOT HAVE A PRINCE WITH A GOVINI CONTRACT ON THEIR HEAD ESCANTS HARPY OF LANSING

I thought the whole Idea of going to one genra(sp?) was to get a game were all the charcters could work together. I macking all players play vampire we still have three seperat factions, cam, sabot, and the geo. I feel that if you elimanated all of the fringe factions and forced everyone to choses one genra nad one faction to play the game would be smoother. Pluse some factions like sabot and BSD were ment for story tellers to use as antagonists. BUt my main beef is that you allowed people to creat new characters and have them come in as elders instead of playing the character fo a year and gaining exp to make them an elder. OH and why is only 10% of the characters 9 - 15th gen. realistucaly the city of Lansing and the surrounding area cannot support the feding habots of one elder letalone 4.

I would like to know exactly how this "peace" is supposed to work. For ages now, the Camarilla and the Sabbat have struggled with eachother. The Camarilla has a certain set of rules, if you will, as does the Sabbat. Even in this "peace" that is sought, there will be those that cannot agree. There will still be bloodshed of our kind. There will be the Sabbat and the Camarilla still. I am seeing that the traditions will be allowed to continue for those that wish to follow them. And what of the Sabbat that breaks the Masquerade? What of the Camarilla vampire that cannot abide this? Then, sides will be taken again, and it will be as when the Sabbat was first formed. While the idea and concept of a peace is a nice thought, there have been too many centuries of warfare between the 2 sects to expect any kind of peace now. The Sabbat will always be the Sabbat, their beliefs will always be contrary to that of the Camarilla, and visa versa. The Bishop speaks of a peace on his own terms. He says that all that do not contact him by Saturday and decide "Wisely", in choosing to side with him in this venture, will be destroyed. Peace must be gained in trust, not in threats. What I get from this is that we either join you in this "peace", or we die at your hands. Forcible peace. What a solution. What a way to start all of the Kindred living together in a supposed nuetral territory. Join us or die. Hmmm.... History has been filled with people like this.. most often we tend to call them "dictators" and the like. Hitler spoke of visions of peace and harmony ... and his nation burned. Peace was a dillusion for him, a clouding of his mind. What he really wanted was the conquest .. the victory. I suspect that is what the Sabbat have in mind as well. Make your choices wisely in this.

Sarah Buchannan, Camarilla Prince of Lansing

Well done, Lord Malcolm. You have shown a wisdom and strength that befits one of your years. As to Sarah and any who follow her, I would say this: you are fools. Surely you recognise that your position has weakened even more now, and still you push for an ultimate solution. I find it ironic that we of the sabbat, maligned by your sect as violent fanatics who accept no quarter, have offered peace to this city and you, the supposed bastions of humanity have rejected it in favor of war. If that is your decision, so be it. In the spirit of peace however, I will offer one final amnesty to those..."kindred" who may be indecisive as to whom to side with in this matter. You have until the beginning of saturday evening to contact me if you wish to be part of this new vision for Lansing (OOC: that means, if you want in, talk to me either before the game starts or right at the beginning, no later than a half hour after we start). Any who do so will be spared. Any who do not will be considered enemies not only of my sect, but of the vampires of the city as a whole, and enemies of the new peace. I shall pray that the wisdom of Caine shall grant you the correct choice in this matter.

Since I've already used my two bits, I guess I'm up to four bits now. [This is just the way I'd like to see it run, not a quote from the book] I don't really like making a distinction between supernatural darkness and natural darkness for trait pennalties. I do like the idea that partial darkness and total darkness have different pennalties. 2 Tr. penn for partile (what you would normally find in a really dark alley, closed room, first level of the sewers, deep in the forest) and 4 Tr. + retest penn for Total (deep underground, obtenebration cloud, blinded, in an air-tight box). However, what helps to ameliorate these pennalties does vary depending on source and intencity. Heightened sences reduces pennalties by two traits in all types, gleam of the read eye completely removes pennalties for partile darkness, and turns total darkness into partile darkness when the source is natural. For obtenebration, I think it should work that heightened sences removes 1 penn trait, and Gleam should give a 2 point reduction. I think it makes more sence this way from a game ballence point of view, since GoRE's only power is to help see in darkness, and H.S. has many more used. Of course, in this setup Blindfighting could be allowed as per it's old rules. DISCLAIMER: This post is only an opinion based on game ballance, not based on how the published rules work.

On general principle I'd rather use the new rules as much as possible. If people bought blindfighting by accident it can be converted into experience at the normal rate. I didn't even find out that there was no blindfighting skill anymore until just a couple days ago, but then again I can think of only one character that definately has it and a few others that might have it.

Here's what I propose for rules regarding darkness. "Regular" darkness would induce a 2 trait penalty on challenges involving perception, but not in melee combat. Challenges from a distance will have a penalty stated by a narrator. In supernatural darkness, the trait penalty should be higher, around 4-6. Acute senses, heighted senses, and some abilities would be able to negate SOME of the penalty. The only individual who should get the free retest should be the person using the ability to create the darkness. Opinions?

I have commited a crime. By my own judgement I have taken actions that I, as Prince, declared a high crime. As I am not above the law, or one to break my work lightly, I am forced to declair myself Autarkis and follow the path that my brethren have taken. The crime I have committed was consorting and dealing with the Sabbat. Over the last week I have had several conversations with the Bishop who ruled them. During these conversations, the two of us have come up with an armistace which would end the war between the Giovanni-Sabbat forces and allow members of all sects and clans to live in Lansing at (reletive) peace. This armistace has the following provisions: End to all actions directly associated with the Jyhad between the sects within the confines of Lansing (this includes killing the other members). Safe passage through this territory for members of all three groups. Citizens of all three groups will live by their respective laws and traditions, and will not hold members of others groups accountable to their own. General amnisty to all vampires for crimes previously committed. The withdrawl of all agents and spies from the other groups. The establishment of a location where members of all three factions may meet in enforced peace. The declaration of the city of Lansing as nutral territory. And the establishment of a Triumvarate Counsil made up of the leaders of each faction. This is what I sacrificed my standing in the Camarilla for, a chance to live in peace. As I am no longer Camarilla, I cannot be a prince - truth be told the mantel chaffed badly. This makes Sarah the prince of the Camarilla, however, she intends to reject this accord and launch a full out war against both the Sabbat and the Giovanni. Such an action is assured, if glorious, suicide. Therefore I offer you all an alternative, a chance to avoid destruction. I will not be a prince, however, If you will have me I will be your Lord. I am only gangrel after all. All those who follow the camarilla are invited (as are others) as I am still on friendly terms with that sect and intend on staying a close ally with them. Those who wish to swear fealty, or just talk, meet me near the great oak near the river in XXXXX park. I must apologize to archon Bjorn and archon-aprentice Carlos, things have been snowballing far too quickly for me to do things the "right" way. However, I do not regret my decision - a treaty is a rare legasy for a warior to have. Considder carefully my friends and may we all walk under the moon together.

To all Kindred of Lansing

I have officially taken the role as Prince again. Malcom, though no longer Prince, is recognized by me in this city. Faire, Casey, Alex, Ahara, please meet with me on Saturday so that we can discuss a course of action. Carlos, I would like to meet with you as soon as possible. The offer that Malcom made still stands. Dr. Fairchild, I need you to please get in touch with me as soon as possible, as well as the other esteemed Doctor. (Cant remember name OOC, sorry, the German guy!! Nate's character.) Malcom, I would like to arrange a meeting with you as well if you are willing. I will have the details Saturday night.

Prince Sarah Buchannan

Hello ST's, I need a ruling. Currently we are using two sets of rules for darkness: LOTHunt (the latest rules for darkness in the previous edition) and LOTN-revised. I'm cool with either set of rules, I'd just like us to pick one and stick with it. The old rules (as I remember them) pennalty for partial dark = 2 Tr. penn. on ties, Total dark= 4Tr. penn. + retest against challenger. This is ameliorated by blindfighting, first 4 levels reduce the pennalty traits and the last level (5) getting rid of the re-test (this skill cannot be used for re-tests - usually) The New Rules: Pennalty for darkness is 2 trait penn. and a penalty re-test. Also there is no blindfighting skill. Personally I'm leaning twards the old rules, especially if we've already let some characters spend XP on a non-exixtant ability (in revised). Lemme know when you can.

Carlos: I'm hoping that your boss showed you the letter I sent him. [I sent it through Seth's e-mail] If he did then you will understand my urgency. I need to know wether or not you and him support me and this course of action that I plan on taking. I need to know sometime tomorow so that I can finalize the details. Otherwise, I'll just have to follow my instincts, as usual. Please respond privately if possible. Thank you.

Yeah Malcolm, I'm up for a meeting as soon as we can arrange it on Saturday. And to Juju, whoever you are, I wouldn't suggest harboring my targets. On second thought it might help me by getting them all in one place. Nevermind go ahead.

I think Tremere would still be 3rd Gen, I mean, it's his soul right? Did Zao-lat/Saulot lose some generation when he got diablerized? His soul was technically still 3rd, so when he seperated souls with Tremere, wouldn't it make more sense for Tremere to go back to whatever generation he was before 1133 when he did the dirty deed? I don't know, things like that are wickedly confusing and make my noggin' hurt. Who's to say?
Anyways, so yeah...Erica, I'll send you an e-mail soon, or if anyone wants to e-mail me first, the address is down below.
Nuttin' Butt Love, Ward "In retrospect, Earl should have married his other cousin" Donovan

I've got a WW storyline question. In Transylvania Chronicles 4, Tremere separates his and Saulot's soul. Now, does that mean Tremere is still 3rd generation? I don't really see how. Anyway, Saulot is running around with all the Thaumaturgical knowledge Tremere had, KotL disciplines, and a mean streak. Yuck. . . and I thought a "normal" Antediluvian was sick.

Flava Unit! Hey..how do I contact you without having to go through the message board?! Drop me an e-mail! Thanks

Sounds like all hell is breaking loose. Anyone not aknowledged give me a hollar and maybe we can find a spot to wait this chaos out. If not maybe we can sit back let them all kill each other then finish off the taxed victor. Kastor or what ever your name is. If you are not aknowledged this request is for you as well.

Carlos, I'd like to meet with you as well, to discuss your status and near future aquizition of said standing. Perhaps you and Bjorn should meet with me at the same time, say early saturday at the latest, the sooner the better.

Just a quick question for Malcolm, and a little thanks to Bjorn for letting me stick around here for a while. You think I could gain multiple "Feared" status' for ending say a half-dozen unacknowledged upstarts? If so, count me in. I'm looking for a record here.

To Dave: I'm cool with that, just make sure to write it up and put it in the faq.

Gargantuan explozun of angst? Da boss just said explozun. No angst. Maybe we should set up one of dem der meetin's that the fancy peopluz use when they gots a problum. Then, i cans smak you down like we subbat do and no more problum. Just gimme yer addres.

Modification: Any of the Self-Control tests in the Frenzy summary can be forfeited (if you dont want to risk gaining a Negative Trait) in which case you automatically suffer the results as if you had failed it.

Sorry to keep posting long rulings, but my e-mail is unaccessible to me for the moment (new computer, lots of problems) here is the revised summary of Frenzy Rules for those that are interested.

Okay, after reviewing the rules John pointed out on self control and Willpower and making sure everything is covered with Seth the modified version goes like this:

1) When confronted by a situation that would cause your character to Frenzy you are required to make a Self-Control test vs. a number of traits equal to the severity of the stimulus. If you lose it is spent and you gain a negative Social trait.

2) Assuming you lose you may immediately spend a Willpower to stave off the frenzy for 10 minutes. You must retest (or enter frenzy willingly if you dont wish to risk a negative trait) again if after the 10 minutes the stimulus is still there.

3) If you do not desire to spend Willpower your character has now entered Frenzy. In any later round you can:
a: bid another Self-Control trait to try to bring yourself down, if you lose you gain a negative social trait.
b: Spend a Willpower to automatically control your actions for one round. During this round you still suffer the normal benefits and penalties for frenzy. After the round is over the Frenzy continues.
c: Someone else can try to talk you down. They bid a social trait, you dont, the difficulty is 10 - your Humanity, but if they lose chances are the frenzy will direct itself toward them. If they win you come out of Frenzy.
d: If the stimulus leaves or is destroyed you automatically get a Static Self-Control challenge to come down from Frenzy. As with all Self Control challenges you risk gaining a negative social trait if you lose.

4) After 10 minutes the Frenzy burns itself out automatically. The stimulus of the original Frenzy, if it is still in your presence, cannot make you test again for the remainder of the conflict.

Kurgan: If yer still out there, meet me at Steve DeBeavic's sometime; we need to talk. The Rest of You: Settle the hell down, unless you want the entire city to go up in a gargantuan explosion of angst. Have some meetings before the in-party fighting gets out of control...

Maybe whoever told me about the whole incident was misinformed about the specifics, but from the sounds of everthing, the individual got the general idea right.

(First, OOC, I would like to know exactly who it was that Sarah killed when she was being hunted and summoned, as well as having to go into HIDING to stay alive?)

IC

Malcom- You can count on me to help you in any way that you need helped. I will send you a letter at your private email address and let you know what has been happening within the city.

Georgio - Vincent was completely aware of the treaty that was made with myself and the Giovanni. Malcom is right, he could have saved you this embarassment. Secondly, I do not seem to recall killing any or your mortals, and I refuse to apologize for an action that I did not commit. Secondly, even if I had, then your mortals would have been in Lansing at the time, which again, falls to breaking the treaty that your family had with the Camarilla of the city.

Sarah

Okay, so a couple of you have already reacted to my posting and contacted me to yell at me. Thanks for caring, guys! I am not quitting the larp as I guess some of you misunderstood. I am unhappy with the larp because when I started this game, it was good. It had the potential to be awesome, but instead, in my opinion has spiraled downward.

All I see and hear anymore, is bickering. What a fun game: let's bicker about everything and anything. What happened to political intrigue? I mean, true intrigue... What happened to organization? What happened to mysteries? Puzzle solving? All I witness is bickering and fighting. No thinking, very few scenes with awesome role-playing, and no character building. Fighting is okay for convention larping when you have three nights to kill or be killed and extremely little time to build up your character, but when playing in a weekly larp, the idea is supposed to be to actually create and build a strong character. Strong, in this case, meaning three-dimensional, having depth, and being realistic.

I have talked to several players and heard how they are tackling these latest plots. It's amusing what's going on out there. I'm not going to name names, nor point fingers, but there are several good characters being stifled while other characters have become lackeys to the system. And I'm not talking about the political system within the game, here.

I could go on and on ranting about this, but I won't waste any more of your time or space. Wait a minute! It seems that this is actually what you would prefer me to do...after all, I'm bitching, and isn't that what the plots are too? Everyone bitching about whose territory, and who's been wronged...Honestly, how many times do you see the Mafia argue with the government about who's been wronged? The Mafia keeps a low profile, just like the Giovanni should. The Sabbat shouldn't be here, but since they are, they should be spurring political intrigue to the max, not being stupid.

Have you all lost your sense of the World of Darkness or didn't you ever take a walk into it to begin with? There are rules lawyers who can quote rules but not neccessarily role-play, there are actors who can role-play beautifully, but not understand the correct way to do a challenge, and there are those who either need a lot of help, or who are well-balanced. We need to take into better account the people behind this game. And we, as players, need to do a better job with our characters. If we bothered to walk in our character's shoes for awhile, we might get some better insight into the whys and hows, instead of instantly attacking each other and bickering some more. Okay, you can go back to your regularly scheduled bickering now.

Bjorn, I wish to have a meeting with you. There we can discuss, in private, this debacal with the Giovanni. As for Sarah's actions against them, I wish to hear the whole story. Her's and Georgio's versions both. (Will the respective parties please oblige through my private e-mail address). To the Bishop: You may consider yourself one of the conserned, however I was not refering to your sect's actions and by signing the treaty of Okemos they have agreed to respect our traditions in our city as we agreed to respect their's in Okemos.

In my last post I mistakenly said "Nos Antitribu", when what I meant to say was "Nos Antibacterial"....just wanted to clear that up in case there was any confusion.
On a different note...JAPAN!!?? Whoah, that's pretty cool...I mean kinda', cool for you and everything, but I'll miss you guys. Will you still respect your round eyed gaijin dog friends when you leave? Of course I know the secret reason behind the move to Japan...it's so Aaron can buy the Playstation 2 before anyone in the U.S..
But, I should be able to come down sometime next week, seeing as how B&N isn't working me enough hours (fascist scum cocks)..anyways, I'll check with you some time soon.
Nuttin' Butt Love, Ward "Even when they were away on business, Gladys and Betty loved their husbands, and everyone elses for that matter...for they were whores" Donovan

You forget, my dear Malcolm that most of the "kindred" as you call them in this city are not camarilla. The sabbat do not recognize the tradition of domain nor, as far as I know, do the giovanni, at least as such. In any case the treaty between the giovanni and the camarilla states that the giovanni will not delve into the *political* affairs of the camarilla, will not hold seats on the primogen, nor claim princeship in any camarilla city. The tradition of domain is not mentioned anywhere within the treaty. Holding influence within the domain of another does not constitute meddling in the political affairs of a camarilla city. However, directly attacking the interests of the giovanni and killing their servants does constitute a breach on the camarilla side of the treaty, promising to not harm the giovanni. I'd suggest an apology is in order...

Prince Malcolm, perhaps you should hold your tongue before you speak. The Treaty we have with the Giovanni is to avoid confrontations with them. The treaty states that we leave them alone, they leave us alone. Regardless of how it was broken, the Giovanni lost some of their mortal help. I don't care as to how it happened, or the circumstances around it. Have Sarah say she's sorry for killing their help. It isn't that hard. This should end the matter(OOC - Bjorn really is a Camarilla Brujah, and in this chronicle, he's an Archon in case anyone thought he was a Sabbat lackey....)

Georgio, if you have any questions reguarding the treaty, perhaps you should ask Vincent why he did not choose to inform you about it. His actions could have saved you this embarrasment. By the way, I'd love to speak to these "camarilla" elders you have the support of. Their knowledge of camarilla law is amusing.

To all it may concern: The Treaty of Venice may have been violated, however such a simple misunderstanding can be fixed quite quickly, through a simple appologie and the reversal of just a few steps. To clarify the law surrounding this treaty, I'll explain to all right here. By previous treaty, two domains exist that of Lansing (at the time of the treaty, slated to remain camarilla) and Okemos (slated to be a Giovanni Domain) This setup was to allow profitable interaction between the two groups while preventing any stepping upon toes. Within the tradition of domain, is put forth that the one who controlls the domain, owns all property within it. Kine are property. Therefore by protesting the destruction of some of my own property, and claiming ownership of said property, you have violated the camarilla's second tradition. This action comes in direct violation of all treaties. Please apologize immediately for this gross violation and remove yourselves to your own domain. Take what property you "hold" with you, if possible; all assets left behind will be considered the property of the prince. All kindred of the camarilla will forfit all holdings in okemos if the Giovanni comply by saturday. Since the city is so small, we do not have a separate Scourge. Therefore to assist my greatly overwhelmed seneschal, I am offering the status of feared to anyone who brings in the head of an unacknoledged vampire. The only non-camarilla vampire who is acknoledged is Aiasha (I have no idea how to spell her name). Those kindred wishing to leave the city my contact me to arrange safe conduct, dealing with the sabbat is still a blood huntable offence.

I am sorry for not saying good-bye in person, but I think my friends will understand. After taking care of business, I have left the United States and returned to the land of my birth. I wish the Camarilla well.

I hate to post this, but "I told you so." Reading the last week's worth of posting, and judging by these as to what happened this past Saturday, the larp is definitely spiraling downward. It's probably a good thing the larp should be coming to an end with the semester. It's gotten to a point where it's no longer worth it to make the effort to get to East Lansing when I could be larping the same dumb plots much closer. Sorry, sts, but that's how I feel.

I need a head count. All Cammi vamps who want to stay and fight to the bitter end either send me a e-mail or post here. Just Malcom

This one is to Dave and anyone else interested in the rules I have been quoting. Complete rules for frenzy are (as usual) scattered in three places. Willpower rules, refering to spending such traits to controll frenzy, are on pg. 107-108. The Section on Virtue traits, of which self-control is one, is on pages 108-111 The section on frenzy is on pages 208-210 All three sectiions need to be intigrated to have a complete set of rules detailing frenzy. Thanks, John

Please excuse my intrustion, but I must get a quick say in to the Flava Unit! Come down you little art-whore! We need our semi-monthly viewing pleasure from you. You can even stay with us this time since we don't have a texan sleeping on our couch. You probably don't know this, but we are most likely moving to Japan in July. I'm just waiting for my letter to find out if I was accepted or not!!! So COME VISIT! Enough said... I now give you back to your regularly scheduled boring vampire drivel... :P

First, you attempt to hunt us, and failed miserably. Then, you begin a war on another front with the Giovanni, a group you could not hope to defeat without massive losses were you fighting them alone. So you now face a war on two fronts, with a handful of skilled warriors (I do give credit where credit is due) and next to no influence within the city. My question is this: how by the grace of Caine do you propose to win? *sigh* had you a lasombra on your side, you would be well aware of the simple truism that some fights are better to lose and walk away from than to fight and be destroyed. If that is your wish, so be it. For those of you not interested in the oh so dramatic glorious death against overwhelming odds, I offer an alternative. I will guarantee safe passage to any camarilla member wishing to flee the city. Anyone with an ounce of sanity or intellegence who wishes to take this offer should simply contact us at the number XXX-XXXX (OOC: there's a number there IC, I'm not going to bother to make one up) or at the above email address, and the arrangements will be made. I could care less where you go to; travel to Chicago if you like, or Detroit if for some strange reason you wish to die faster than you would here. Merely leave, and you will be spared from the destruction here.

Ms. Buchannan,

I know of no such treaty with you or your lord. Okemos is a nice city full of wealth but hardly worth bragging about. According to the treaty of Venice the Giovanni will not be denied access to any Camerilla city as long as we do not claim rulership of the city's kindred population. We make no such claims. However, any attacks on our holdings or influences is a DIRECT attack on our person and a break of the treaty of Venice. Attcks were made on both this weekend. We didnt start a war Ms. Buchannan, your sect did. You have the ARRAGENCE to break a deacdes long treaty and then point fingers at us. Unless you issue an immdediate public apology admitting your mistake and issue payment for the damage caused to my holdings and influences ALL CAMERILLA holdings in the city of Lansing will be declared forfeit and burned. Do not underestimate me Ms. Buchannan, I have the power of the entire Giovanni family behind me as well as your camerilla elders. Your elders are not happy with your braking of the treaty either. Therefore I have been given authoriuty and resources to burn this city before the breach of the treaty can spread further. To the Kindred of the Camerilla, I have talked to most of you. I am aware that the majority of you do not like your leadership but are afraid to act out against it because of their physical prowess. I emplore you to remove them, any leadership is nothing without your support. This current leadership is leading the city of Lansing to an all out war. Soon nothing will be left but ruins and ash. Act now or you stand to lose everything. I give you until saturday. Until we meet again,

Lookie here, it seems as though a skirmish is ensuing between the Giovanni and the young vampires representing the Camarilla. While I won't directly participate in this struggle, I offer my services to the highest bidder. I deal in personal enhancements. Feel free to contact, I am always available.

First Malcolm is in charge then Sarah is the big cheese. Can someone fill me in as to who is in charge here. I have been living in the city for 5 weeks now and I can't seem to meet any one to be acknowledged by. I know of only 1 other of my clan and he has dissapeared. No one to make a formal greeting for me and I have no desire to be considered an anarch. See ya later and party on!!!!!!!!!!!

Dr. Fairechild

As soon as Malcolm returns to the city and is filled in on what has happened in his absence, I am sure that he will offer a more than adequite explaination. He may choose to re-instate the council. Who the hell knows? But as long as *I* am in charge here, things remain as they are. If you would like to contact me at the email address below, it is checked daily, and I am sure that we can talk in that way.

Sarah

I was not aware that the Elder Nosferatu William von Dresden and myself had been removed as Primogen. This is highly irregular. I admit, this city is anything but regular, though I beleive I deserve and explination.

Large scale destruction? You mean like Gehenna, the Apocolypse(die furies, DIE!), Long Winter, Oblivion, etc.? Hmm....

Hey, just me. I figured I'd drop in and let everyone know I'm okay, but no-one really cares do they? As for the Transylvanian Chronicles, Adam, I'm already four steps ahead of you. Bought all four and read them a few weeks ago. Hey, Saulot was the "dragon" all along and what the Nos Antitribu tried to do in the end was Damn scary. It seems like large scale destruction is now in "style" with WW supplements. Anyways, I might make it down there sometime next week, who knows, if anyone wants me to, just say so. By the by...hey Pyle, what's your new #, or is it still the same?
Nuttin' Butt Love, Ward "Quick Frank, you have to tell me how you make your pie crusts so flakey" Donovan

The Camarilla is warring with the Giovanni?! Aw, what a pity....

Malcolm

I sure the hell hope that you are planning to be back in Lansing soon cos we need to freakin talk big time! I am not at liberty to tell you where I am staying, to do that would mean an end to me, I think. Just find me. By the way, I have disbanded the Primogen Council EXCEPT for the following members: Clan Nosferatu - O'Hara, Clan Tremere - Casey, Clan Brujah - Faire, and Clan Ventrue - Alex.

To the Giovanni- I would just like to say that what happened tonight was UNCALLED for. You speak of treaties, well, let me remind you of the treaty that says that the Giovanni do not mix in the affairs of the Camarilla. When you arrived here, you were given Okemos as your territory. You have continued to creep further and further into Lansing. You talk about us threatening your influences here. Here is Lansing. Lansing belongs to us. Center your influence in Okemos and we will have no problems at all.Really, I have been through this before with the Giovanni family, and I thought that we had an understanding after the unfortunate incident that occured with Vince the last time the family was in Lansing. As I said then, I do not want a war with the Giovanni, but I will not back down from one.

To the remaining members of the Primogen Council, the ones mentioned above, I will be in contact with you (Send me your email addresses PLEASE, to the GemenSkyDS@aol.com address!!). We need to talk as soon as we can about a few things.

Sarah

For those who have revised, have the rules changed at all concerning people on paths and such? Not that that would affect my character or anything...:-)

John: You're gonna have to come up with page numbers and such for what you've posted regarding Frenzy. I dont see it in what I'm looking at (p.209 Third Edition). Specifically: Gaining permanent negative traits and temporary derangements from entering a frenzy, being unable to make social and mental challenges while suppressing a frenzy and the required retest each round while suppressing a frenzy if the stimulus is still present. Also I'd like to see where it tells when exactly you spend willpower for supressing frenzy because I agree, the rules are pretty good in third edition. I'd love to play with what you stated, I've just gotta see it in black and white. Believe me, it would clear this up in an instant.

It seems as though the level of intellect put forth by the pillars of the Camarilla is at an all time low in Lansing. "Die Sabbat scum" is the best you can come up with? I would sincerely hope your reaction to the distinguished Bishop's post would be more thoughtful. I guess the weight of so many elders on one's shoulders does take an effect on the puppet. Such is the fate for sheep whose only goal in (un)life is to do what the shepard says. Perhaps of pack of Vozhd would change your manner?

On Tuesday, March 14th, at 2:00 PM, I will be running a Vampire: The Masquerade (tabletop) demo for The Players Guide demo team. All experience levels are welcome, we will be making characters there, and will run the game with up to six players. Please email me, or just show up, if you're interested. :)

Such rancor! I can assure you such feelings are not returned from our side. Hate is such an amusingly...human...trait. We could show you how to move beyond such petty concerns though...

DIE SABBAT SCUM!! I hope all of you burn in the sunlight of all nine hells!

Kastor: my sincerest apologies on the disruption of your ritual. I hope we can avoid needless bloodshed in this matter. I will most certainly meet with you to discuss these events. Contact me at your leisure.

Don't forget the mandatory rule of a frenzy check when that everyone has to make when reading these posts. I believe it's a three mental trait challenge.

For anyone with an interest in events in the White Wolf time/storyline, I suggest reading the Transylvania Chronicles. There are several explanations of events in the past and present of vampire that everyone who plays vampire knows about, but few who know the details to. On top of that, you'll never think of Saulot the same way. . .

To the Sabbat: You have 10 days to prepare to defend yourselves. Disturbing my quest was ill-advised. A resolution can be reached should you desire. It can be handled in one of two ways. Send the lick who attacked me to a location of my choosing or I'll come find him and judicate his fate to his packmates as well.

No skippy, your character's name gets changed to beaker. Steve's name gets changed to Dr. Honeydew.

I'm going to speak up, too. How many votes to change my character's name to Dr. Bunson Honeydew? Anybody?

I'm speaking up. Masquerade -revised clearly states that you cannot use willpower before the challenge. The order of events as laid out by the book is: Step 1) Challenge, provocation vs self-control, Win no frenzy, loose goto step 2. Step 2) Descide if you want a re-test, if no - Frenzy + gain one permanant negative trait, if yes you risk one temp self-control and test again, provocation vs self-control. Win and you're fine, loose and you Frenzy, loose one temporary virtue trait for the night, gain a permanant negative trait, and gain a temporary derangement. Step 3) once you've entered frenzy you can NOW spend one willpower to control your frenzy for ten minutes - note: this is like riding the wave, you ARE in frenzy (no social, mental disciplines, no wound pennalties, not risking any social traits in social challenges directed against you). Additional Notes: If the stimulus for frenzy is still there when you spend a willpower, you have to test again the next round or loose control again. You also get a free test to come out of frenzy when the stimulus leaves the area. I don't want to thumb my nose at you Dave, I just think that the revised rules are pretty good so we should know them and use them. To Lisa: Please come to the game this week, I don't think I can make it this time. To those playing primogen I need your e-mail addresses so I can talk privately to you all. Please send a message to the address below, that let's me capture them.

WARNING: STORYTELLER RULING BELOW read only if you like to know the intricate details of how I interpret FRENZY (p. 209 Third Edition). The Frenzy aspect of the game is meant (in my opinion) to be a dramatic element of the game. People generally do a decent job of calling for a check when they feel it is appropriate to their character. A storyteller or narrator would have to be at each and every scene to enforce this fairly anyhow and I'm not up for that kind of aerobic workout.

The Masquerade states the conditions for Frenzy are (by level of difficulty, omiting hunger frenzies):

2) Harassed. Life Threatening situation.
3)Physical provocation or attacks.
4) Loved one in danger. Humiliated.
5) Outright humiliation, mortal insults.

All of these items are subject to judgement calls based on the character's other traits (Humanity, Conscience, Courage, Merits and Flaws). What mortally insults one Kindred might just be empty words to another. Cunsult a Storyteller if you feel someone is ignoring a frenzy test they *should* be making. One can induce frenzy in another Kindred by "taunting" them, then engaging them in a social test. What constitutes "taunting" however, is also up to the character or a storyteller (if the taunting party feels their valid taunts are being ignored) to decide. A single Willpower Trait can always stave off frenzy for 10 minutes anyhow, and while the book doesn't say whether it is spent before or after the challenge I interpret it this way: If you spend your Will before the test and after the 10 minutes the frenzy trigger is still there, you now have to test. Iif you fail your test but spend Will and after 10 minutes the Frenzy trigger is still there you have already failed and automatically enter Frenzy.

Players cannot spend an extra Willpower to stave off Frenzy for another 10 minutes as this would violate Third Edition's "One retest per trait or ability" rule.

If you think this is a flawed interpretation, as always, please speak up.

"Don't you worry They won't find my body I want you to know I've found peace In another world. Don't you dig in I want you to leave back Away from the place Where my ashes are buried!"

Is anyone having problems posting to the board?

I too dislike yardsticks. However one of the integral parts of vampire is the struggle against the pooka. If the Methulisa with a bananna in the ear isn't taken into consideration, something is wrong.

I've realized since I've started narrating again, I too dislike Rules Lawyering. However, one of the integral parts of vampire is the struggle against the Beast. If that isn't taken into consideration, something is wrong. . .

Pile, I agree that rules should not overshadow the intercharacter interaction. However, rules that forcefully re-introduce a dramatic component to the genre that has heretofor been neglected I believe are good rules and are worth the extra effort on the part of the players and narrators. As for the masquerade, Hell yeah! We should be crawling with the inqisiton, the FBI, yet more arcanum agents, and giovanni actions tend to bring in the bennedanti. Get a fucking helmet - this is going to be great!

Another option we can use is to cocentrait on character devolpement/story/role playing instead of rules. I HATE RULES LAWYERS. Even white wolf says if you dont like a rule toss it out. Now I am not saying we should have no rules..BUT... Concentrait on interaction between players. You dont HAVE to use your abilites if you dont want to. Ask Treeboy about character3 with little or no abilities yet still feared and respected by other players. Use your wits, not your knowledge of rules, and you will have a much more enjoyable time. Talk to you later...

I agree with John. I also think that implementing testing for frenzy would mean yet even more challenges, which is bad. However, there are solutions to this. 1) Don't fight, unless threatened with Final Death, or 2) we can start enforcing Humanity/Path Trait loss in the case of deaths, which has been VERY lax since the 3rd edition has been implemented at Fortress. Another thing that has been neglected(a lot) is some regard for the Masquerade... THERE IS NONE. AoM was right. The fact that hunters haven't burned Lansing to the ground looking for vampires is puzzling.

In the wake of the rules monkey: I'd like to point out a rule that alot of players have been ignoring: Frenzy. I know that Malcom is a little lower on the self-control ladder than other characters and should frenzy more often than most characters, however, I rarely see any other characters testing against frenzy - let alone falling to the beast and when I do it's usually when I remind the person or the ST to do so. One has to remember, in this genre, you are not playing a person with fangs - you are playing a monster. Even those with high humanity, they just arn't admiting it to themselves. The beast should be an ever-present screaming inside your head and the more firmly you hold it inside, the harder it flings itself against the bars of the mental cage your charcter has constructed. Look at the chart for difficulties for self-control. Being harrased is a 2 trait test, being attacked is a 3 trait test. Most characters should be testing 2-3 times a night, reguardless of conveniance or weather or not it would get your character killed. The beast should be somthing to be feared and is supposed to be a major theme in any stories involving vampires - not dissmissed as it is in our game.

For those of you who need the info...8pm 1118 N. Walnut