Lots of interesting talk on the board. I believe that Seth B. is correct about the permission slips. If we have them we will be doubly charged with enforcing it. Eric does allow everyone into the fortress, so we need to watch the swearing and the sex and keep it at least pg-13. ;-)

I will be there this saturday night, sorry about last weekend. I had an annual golf outing that I had to attend.

I hope everyone is enjoying there summer.

If John agrees, I wouldnt mind seeing one character of each independent being played... PC villains are so much better than us storytellers. That is as long as we maintain at least 20 vamps in the city.

See you saturday!

How should I send the hopeful banner for the page too?

Speaking of the new Sabbat Guide, all you nazis who tried in the past beating the system by bidding NEGATIVE traits(like callous) against Presence powers and the like have to pay for them now as regular traits - so NEENER!. Also, Blindfighting is once again listed as an ability. I remember there being some problems when people were taking that and it wasn't in LotNR.

No color bad...the yellow face it hurts me so! smegol, smegol. That being said, that's a great idea pyle. lemme know what I have to do to make it happen. Also, a reminder to all of you, skippy and joy are wanting links for cool stuff from all of you. Please indulge them, it makes the site cooler. Second to last note: I think the photos should be organized my chonology, with an obvous division between the old game and the current one. Last note: For the time being, I think that I only want to use the material that has been prepared for revised LARP, that means that all the stuff out of the LOTN, Cam guide, and Sabbat guide (no you don't get any vzhods) are kosher. There is more than enough to keep everyone spending XP in those books, without haveing to write a huge house rule's supplement. 'K?

Hello,

Let me start by asking that if anyone is to e-mail me please do so at my privatepyle@voyager.net address. That being said I would like to discuss our logo. I don't know if any of you read the front page but our web mistress is asking for a new logo. Joy made our first one, which was excellent, but now we as a group should come up with a new symbol to signify our "Re-birth". Therefore I would like to purpose a "Design The new Fortress Logo" contest. The winner would receive some sort of prize. I will contact Eric (The Fortress owner) to arrange something if people are interested. Lets use this board to gather ideas and bring color back to the LARP page! Talk to you later,

i was tired when i made my god damn post PermissionSLIP

Speaking to our family Lawyer i came up with the following. A Permissionship would void any legal issues for having a underage "person" being involved in a somewhat adult oriented gaming enviroment. Having the Permissionship would make it the parents legal problem if something happened to the son or daughter. The Permissionship IS A MUST. SO I would do the permissionship no matter what.

I would just like to clarify for everyone: WE ARE HAVING A GAME ON THE 1ST. I've heard that some people are missinformed about this. Spread the word! To skippy: Thanks for the clarification.

Ok, to go with the thread of clearing up miscommunications... that remark I made about John and I needing to have a talk was a joke. A rib. Nothing made in seriousness. I respect John as a Storyteller, and I would never intentionally undermine a Storyteller's credibility like that. If I had a real issue or question, I would approach John in private, as is the proper route to go. Guess I should have left a ":)" at the end of it or something... Sorry if it's caused any confusion.

It has come to my attention (Thanks Zach) that some people think that I am extremely upset over some events that happened last saturday and that I am not planning on returning to LARP. Rest assured, these rumors are FALSE. Cliff was upset at the end of the session but not Pyle. I did not go to Bell's because I had plans to go to a party after LARP. I can understand how the scene could become misinterpreted and I apologize for any problems I may have inadvertently caused. I will be there this Saturday and I look forward t seeing all of you! Thank you for your time.

To all other in my family: We will be havin' a little family reunion on saturday. Just us, no one else please. Contact me for directions. I'm sorry joshua, I know how you wanted to go to 'dat social thing with 'da pretty pictures but 'dis is important.

A salon hosted by the Setites? Um, John, we need to have a little talk... heh.

I would like to corjaly invite you all to see an exibition of the latest talents from the student artists in the Lansing area. It's going to be at the Gloy Deis gallery, it's near Lake Lansing. I intend to provide you with the finest entertainment, refreshments, and of course art. So please make an effort to attend, it would be a shame to waste all the talent these artists have put into their work. See you there.

Well, it's wedensday, last chance for downtimes, get them in folks! As for the somthing special: There is going to be a salon, anyone who is willing to bring in somthing for the game that night will recieve a dollar off admision. I'm looking for the following: CD/boom box, classical CD's/tapes, a punch bowl, red punch, styrofoam cups, posters and paintings, what ever else you can think of (almost). Please e-mail me about what you are planning to bring to the game, so we don't have 20 cans of punch and no cups.

Something interesting, eh John? You know what? I've only got one thing to say about that!!

Bloody wanker.

Gentlemen, I've managed to rearrange my schedule so that I can be in the city on the night of Saturday 1 July. I shall expect to see you at the meeting as arranged.

To improve coordination of activities, I would ask my fellows on the Board of Directors to send me their email addresses; I will establish a mailing list.

[OOC: Vanessa will be at the game as well. We've decided to go up to her grandmother's place after the LARP, what with the Big Ugly Meeting supposed to take place and all....]

Just letting everyone know that we are playing on the 1st of July. I hope you all come, I've something "interesting" lined up. See you there. P.S. get in your downtimes soon!

I say, Lazarus old boy, you still haven't given me your email address. Post a message here or send me email at the address below.

New and old pics are up. :)

Come to think of it you're probably right Seth being that in a way we pay to "rent" the Fortress each Saturday. That fact really is the only thing that separates us from the Tuesday night game of Axis & Allies or the Wednesday D&D session. Still, I think that John has gotten the consensus.

(Sorry about the duplicate posting. Goddamn Lynx.)

I just wanted to add, once again, that I AM NOT A LAWYER. So don't sue me if you mistake my informed speculations for legal advice.

skippy, you're missing the point. establishing a permission-slip policy does not "cover our ass"; it makes the situation much worse. trust me on this one.

Dave, you're wrong when you say that only Eric would get sued. Maybe the plaintiff would think only Eric was worth going after, but in fact, everyone involved with running the game (that's Eric, John, Seth, Skippy, and me at last count) would be open to suit. It's not beyond question that the players could be targeted as well.

The point I'm trying to make here is that we are better off just not worrying about issues of legal liability. There's nothing we can do about it--unless someone wants to donate about $1500 to cover legal fees and filing fees for the process of incorporating Fortress of the Mind's Eye, and another $1000 or so every year to pay for the legally-required audit.

Skippy, you're missing the point. Establishing a permission-slip policy does not "cover our ass"; it makes the situation much worse. Trust me on this one.

Dave, you're wrong when you say that only Eric would get sued. Maybe the plaintiff would think only Eric was worth going after, but in fact, everyone involved with running the game (that's Eric, John, Seth, Skippy, and me at last count) would be open to suit. It's not beyond question that the players could be targeted as well.

The point I'm trying to make here is that we are better off just not worrying about issues of legal liability. There's nothing we can do about it--unless someone wants to donate about $1500 to cover legal fees and filing fees for the process of incorporating Fortress of the Mind's Eye, and another $1000 or so every year to pay for the legally-required audit.

*Puts Dave in a head lock* Am not a Numbskull!

I dont really see a problem with allowing certain younger than 18 people into our game. Eric would be the one to get sued anyway (and/or White Wolf itself, but they've already got a policy in place allowing under 18 readers). Maybe you should ask him, or wait until he says something. He's pretty open and vocal when it comes to these things.

If you want to have an over 18 policy because all the youngsters are NUMBSKULLS that's a different story. I'm all behind that. ;)

I tend to agree with dave/pyle/seth/etc..etc..etc..

I'm not really against the idea of a permission slip, but I can't see it being able to be implemented. Dealing with new character write-ups and rules arbitrations have already got our Storyteller and Narrator taxed, to add this bit of red tape would tax them even more, and most likely turn away new players. We're already supposed to watch our language upstairs, as anyone can be in the store at any time. I think it's a good idea to cover our rear, but I don't think it's feasible.

I, too, am against having any sort of age related permission slip. Children of any age can purchase most White Wolf products, I don't see how its application in a Live Action setting would cause any problems. Two of the LARPs I've attended at home have several players who are still in HS, one of them has been playing in that particular game since he was 13.

I don't know about any legal responsibilities but I do feel Pyle makes a valid point. I'm against any form of permission slip. (sometimes the ones that need it the most are over 18 anyway: that's why we have the warning system right?)

COLOR!!! HASN'T ANYONE HEARD OF COLOR?! WHY IS THE WEB-PAGE SO COLORLESS??? IT HURTS...IT HURTS...

Disclaimer:
I am not a lawyer.
This is not legal advice; it is merely speculation by a well-read layman. Seek advice from qualified legal counsel before doing anything. In this litigious world, you shouldn't even pick your nose without a written opinion from an attorney.

John, the permission slip is a very very bad idea. It would increase our liability exposure, not decrease it (since we would then be responsible for enforcing the policy).

Unless you want to create a corporate entity to run the LARP, complete with liability insurance, you are better off not taking any notice of liability issues. You can only make the situation worse, not better.

Here is my opinnion of the age thing and the way we had it in the past. Eric (the owner of the Fortress) does not have an age limit. Anyone of any age can enter his store at anytime. Thereore, we have never could required people to have permission slips. Now I know what your going to say: "We play a rated 'R' game and could get in trouble with the LAW." Well the truth of the matter is that our game uses ALL of Fortress and even the outside. Kids are going to be exposed to our game even if they are not involved directly with the LARP. So I dont think the permission slip is feasible. We just have to behave ourselfs a little bit. We cant detract from Eric's buisness because he keeps the store open for us. Therefore I vote against permission slips. E-mail me if you have any qustions. Thank you for your time.

*stands up* Hello, my names Zach and I'm a "Baldur's Gate" addict.

Well John, in my old game in owosso the instituded the rule of anyone under 18 had to get a parental permission slip.I was at the time 17 , as I still am. The whole thing is is that my dad is a big redneck and would rather have me out drinking and puking my guts out on saturday nights instead of me going out and doing my thing and roleplaying. My mother is a total idiot, so there's no way that I could get a permission slip. The good thing is is that the ST new of my position and said I was a good player and it would have been a pain in the ass to lose me because I actually played by the rules. Anyway my whole point is is that if this rule is imposed some kids may not have a good home life lets say and you may lose some good players because of it.

(appology accepted Brandon... you never really botherd me.) -as for weres and fae and such inthe game... i dunno never really been involved in one with anything but vamps for the most part... would like to see something but i wouldn't want it to take away from what we have currently. ...Pete, i would like to talk with you before you go making yourself more of a nusance.

I want to bring somthing up to the players: I'm thinking about adding a new rule for the LARP and I want your input. Vampire is inherently an adult game; there is a great deal of violence sex (mostly through metaphore) and couruption of the soul in this game. I personally like it this way. In order to continue telling stories of these types I need to have a way of protecting us from a lawsuit. We run a game that could be described as rated "R" and have players that are under the age of 18. I am thinking about instituting a permission slip policy for all underage gamers andnot allowing any NEW players under the age of 16 at all. All current players under the age of 16 would be allowed to play, with a permission slip (i.e. grandfathered in). This is a big descision and I want you all to have input; no descisions have been made, this is just an idea. However, I ask all of you in your responces to be respectful and responceive to everyones opinions. No Name calling. OK, have at it.

dont matter none anyways, mr. eric, now does it?

i wood like 2 apologize 2 eric schaar 4 my mis-b-havior...plz accept it

Did anyone, other than the Fae, actually enjoy the game as much week by week, when it was multi-genre? I know I didn't. Vampires, in a relatively large city should not have to be worried about Lupine assaults every night. Lupine moots should not be interrupted by Britany Spears music. Mr. Wilke makes a good point with edition incompatability as well. In a game adhering to Lupine laws, they should seek out and slaughter vampires, and that really doesn't sound that much fun to me... unless you like the "Unga, SMASH!" version of Live Action gaming.

Last bit: In order to simplify the bookeeping we are doing here in ST land, I'd like to ask everyone to send you downtimes to me at Vordac@hotmail.com, to Seth and to Skippy, Thanks.

I'm loving the new look on this page, I think our webmasters are realy doing a great job. I'm not looking forward to running a multi-genre game, it detracts focus from the game and leads to implosible situations. Also, none of the other games have been revised for LARP yet, therefore they are not compatable rules wise. As for what this game then offers that the others don't is a good game, from what I've heard every other game now sucks compared to what we have here and the current influx of new players(during the summer nontheless)seems to me to comfirm this. Mark does have a point, however, I did say that after a certian # of players were reached I would start to allow indipendant characters. I'm doing this in a purely discressionary manner and the numbers are going to stay very low. I'm cringing with the thought of how much e-mail I'm gonna get for this one. Think realy hard before you ask me to change to another character, only ask if you have something spectacular in mind. As a last note, Ancillae players cannot switch their characters. In exchange for power you gave me a comitment to your responcibility for that clan's well-being. Thanks

I belive the single vamp onl game is for the summer, due to lack of players before we go changing everything lets wait till fall to see how many people we have. Hopefully this fall we will have some other Genres open. I dont think we should change everything just yet.

Got a point Pete. If you still ok by the boss I cant raise a finger to 'ya. However it seems you pissed off the head of your family. He CAN do something to 'ya. If you need any help Josh let me know. Take it easy....

I was thinking along the same lines Seth B. New logo wouldn't be a bad idea at all. I'll see what I can come up with and maybe they'll add it somewhere.

I think we need a new logo. We're no longer a multi-genre game, after all. Speaking of which, someone should notify the Mind's Eye Journal that we're now single-genre, so they can move our listing to the "Vampire" section instead of the "Other" section.

what happened to the site? i liked the old pics on the main page

I support you also Dave.

OH MY GOD! THE BANALITY ... THE BANALITY... MAKE THIS BAD WEB PAGE STOP!

....

Your threats suck Pete. And family doesnt run out on family. Ever.

I'd like to see the combined (Vamp/Were/Change/Wraith) FoME Icon that was on the last page somewhere here. I've tried to make certain it's on every poster and flyer I've made up to make it recognizable. If we've moved on past that let me know and hopefully we can come up with a new one?

Um Oops change Brujah to family. Heh I keep forgetting I need to make sure I don't have Pete breach the Mas. On here.

Hey Der Cliff. Just listen, I'm still acknowledged by dat boss and still have dat status until da Book Keeper says so. So until den I'm set. And cliff I understand you don't wanna do what you gotta do, but it's your job, so we can play hide and seak if'n ya want. Don't matter to me none, you just gotta find me. I ain't gonna be breakin no rules or cauin no harm. I mean, if da prince lets the Snakes into his garden why can't he have a measly little mouse like me eh? And as for you Michael, I'm still brujah ass. You come after me? Fine, just make sure you say good bye to mommy and daddy first because you wont be comin' back. Got me? Good.

Hmmmm......Pete going independant cuz he feels picked on. Souns like a queer thing to do to me Pete. You wanna bail on your brothers and act like a pansy, fine by me, Im sick of covering for your pathetic ass anyhow. Just remember, when Cliff comes for you, Im going to be right beside him, and every time youve ever told me to shut up or called me a pussy, well, Im going to take that out on your hide.

I agree with Clifford. Peter, the best idea is for you to calm down and to come back. If not, returning to Chicago might be a good option, but leaving us is something I would not recommend.

Pete when you going to learn bud? Christ boy we aint fuckin you your fuckin yourself. Do you think this solves anything? All you've done if forced me to come after your ass. Think about it man. I'm sure if you change your mind right now the boss will give you another chance. You have been a big help policing the city. however, if you decided to leave the group, well, as they say in "The Firm" No one leaves us pal. Pete, I got too much to do to have to hunt your ass down as well. Do something smart for once in your life you jack ass! Laterz...

Just testing the new site.

Well, I believe I Can give a quote for dis. "Da Time has come da walrus said," I'm leaveing you guys. I am now declairing myself as an independant. I am no longer apart of your organization and I do believe that all of you know why. If not I'll put it to0 you dis way, if I stayed with you guys I midaswell and be bending over a table wit' my pants around my ankles. Ya dat's right i'm sick and tired of getting fucked all da time. I'm out, dose of you who need to talk to me, you got my cell number. (Email is linked to the handle if you guys want to get ahold of pete during the week.)

If I may, I would like to request that all the members of my family meet with me early in the evening. I have had a revelation about something, and would like to request your help on a little matter.

I think the contact list is a slpendid idea, please do make sure that I get a copy.

Yeah, I would personally like to know where in 'da hell our new place is. I mean, how am I spouse'd to get in touch wit' 'da boss in case we sometin' happens in 'da city 'dat he really needs to know about? I mean Really I'm just concerend about 'da city ya know?

Yes, I would appreciate being advised of our new meeting place as well.

Has any progress been made on the previously-proposed idea of a phone directory for the officials of our little club? If no one else is undertaking this, I will gladly volunteer to compile a list of contact numbers and distribute a booklet to all office-holders. This would contain only name and contact number--no other identifying information.

Someone please give me a hollar with the address for our new home? Take it easy....

DRIVIN' DOWN HIGHWAY 40 IN MY BIG OL' PICKUP TRUCK!

does any one know of a good place 2 buy a couch 4 our meeting place

Final word on the board: It is both in character and out of character depending on if the one posting is a character or a player. There is no security for this page, use euphamisims! All posts from before the re-start don't exist in the game world. OK I'm done now. (drivin down highway 40....)

Everyone knows that you must burn the web to kill the spider but beware when the spider makes his home in a powder keg.

My opinion:

• This is supposed to be an in-character board. That's the clear consensus of past flamewars over this issue.
• We've already been over the "security to get into the web board" thing. There is none. Joe Websurfer can read anything we say here. Otherwise, some characters would not have access to the board, because no one would have told them the password. Again, clear consensus from past flamage.
• Yes, a Sheriff can be that stupid. Of course, it will probably cost him his position.

This is not exactly the first time there's been an argument over whether the web page is publicly visible in the game world. Can we avoid fighting these battles again and again? Or should we just get rid of the comment page?

I was always under the impression that the in-character posts were made on a public message board, not a private, secured one.

My opinion was that this board was always a private "Supernatural" board that you needed some kind of security to get into it. However, since I'm not a ST anymore it could be anything. Dont think a Sheriff would be that stupid. Plus if you read previous posts from this board there would be several breeches. Thats my 2 cents.

ok..GMs...is this msg board IC or OOC...

Die SKippy

Joey,

Your logic is exactly the kind I've come to expect after being in this city for two weeks. Is this not a public message board? Has your post not just done what you threaten to punish for?

Im pretty much only gping to say this once, the first time you breech the Mas. I will issue a painful warning to you. The 2nd time i may be forced to destroy you or speak with the prince about your punishment, i will not tolorate people doing things that will breech the masquerade or have humans mortals chanting the word vampire. Shape up or ship out...

I am creating a mailing list for my fellow English expatriates. If you hail from the UK, please send me your email address, and I'll add you to the list.

Hey, do any of the other players of English characters want to get together and relate our character histories a bit? Let me know. :)

I would suggest that our next meeting be a formal gala or ball. It would be a prime opportunity to donate to the up and coming Cultural Center, as well. What does everyone think?

I would appritiate the those with the ability to assisit influence wise in the purchase of our Elysium to contact me... im sure those most willing to help will be looked upon with favor and by myself and the Harpy. i thank you for your willingness to assist me.

Hi guys, Just wanted to send out an invite to Karen's and my house warming party. It is on Friday June 16th from 8pm-11pm in Westfeild Club Apartments, 7312 Talbot dr. Apt 204, Lansing Mi. We are having a kind of snack night so if you would like to bring some munchies of somekind it would be greatly appreciated. We plan on making fixings for nachos and or a vegetable tray. No alcohol please we are tring to make this a dry party. Please RSVP by telephone as I am not able to check my e-mail as often as I would like and we would like to know how many people are comming and what kind of pop to buy(Pepsi or Coke?) Phone (517)321-7976 Thanks and hope to see you there. If you need further directions: West side of Lansing/If you are going the high way take 69 along the west side of Lansing and look for the Saginaw Hwy exit/Take Saginaw st to Canal st and turn North/Turn right into Westfield Club Apts (on Canal st behind Horrocks market)/Stay to the right third driveway to the right bldg 7312 apt 204

Well, Cliff, my friend, you are welcome at my haven anytime...but uhm...beware the trip! Some people just don't have their heads about them by the time they get to my door! Sheesh! :)

well, I have returned from Berlin, and am curious as to the affairs of the city in my absence. If anyone could email me what has been going on, I would greatly appreciate it. In particular, I would like to hear about the goings on of my family in the city. If you could contact me, I may have a proposal for you. Finally, in regards to our emminent scourge's request, I am afraid I too must decline. My sanctuary is my own, and I prefer to keep its locale to myself. Rest assured, there shall be no breaches of our safety there. Good day to you all.

Sorry about that - loaded an old config file into Roxen by accident...

Hey Mr. J could you please e-mail me. Harley

Thank for the vote of confidence Joey. I would be honered if the leaders trusted me with the position. I will do whatever it takes to make this city safe. A home is not a home if 'ya cant feel safe sleeping there. Take it easy...

I feel the Sherriff of this city should be Cliff and i would be more then willing to take the role of Scourge, as a Nos i can move around the city and keep an eye on everything and everybody. I feel the Nos can keepa good eye on everything and everyone. Thanks..

As I said the choice is up to you Sir. My point is not to upset people, just protect the city as a whole. I will be drivin around the city checkin things out. If I see some weird stuff going on I will do my job. If I knew it is going on at your home I will inform you. I aint tryin to find out secrets to snitch. No one has to tell me, I am just requesting. Once again I am sorry if I have offended anybody, just trying to do my job. Take it easy...

Wow! I have been gone for quite some time...I read the posts, and EVERYTHING has changed! By the time I actually return to a session, you're going to have this new game well under way, aren't you? Sigh. Boring vamps...what's a girl to do?

Cliff, my good man, what you suggest is absurd. Once the "Boss", as you put it, has recognized one of our number, he is no longer your concern. It is neither necessary nor appropriate for us to notify you of our dwelling-places; rather, it is your job to learn to recognize us by sight.

Your choice Sir. Needless to say that if city rules are broken at your home I will not hesitate to execute the duties of my office to the fullest. The rule of Domain does not apply to homes not recognized by the boss. Not trying to be a pain, just trying to do my job. Thankz again,

I just realize that I originally posted as Jonothan. Storry, I meant to put Joshua. Silly english bastards... :)

The request for the location of our homes is ludicrous. Those of us that are mature and gentlemen can take car of our own domains, once we appropriate them, thank you.

When we do come up with a new home could someone give me blueprints? I need to start doing security on the place. Also as you all get homes I need to know were they are. If I find your home and something strange is going on... Well lets just say it is better that I know it is indeed your home. Thanks people....

I have bought me a estate and I shall personlly donate it to the use of the cam.please us it as you see fit i would like to sigjest possible the futere art gallery & elysiam.also an a more personel note sorry about the languge barrior i have rectifid the sichuashon and now remember how to speak english.

First off, I'd like to congradulate everyone who showed up on saturday, you all did a fantastic job and the larp was only as good as it was because of your efforts. If you have any comments or reccormendations please send them to me at the following e-mail. Secondly, I'd like to say that contrary to prior commitments I will be at the next game. Lastly, I'd like to say to any of you that are reading the board but not comming to the game: get down here! Things are really starting to cook. Well, see you all on saturday and hope to get your downtimes (influence, XP, and how you're spending your time)sometime before thursday.

I just wanted to let all of you know that Lansing is everything my father said it would be. Perhaps eventually we can make it into a place of culture and respect, despite its location amongst the Colonies.

If anybody's interested I'll be holdin' a friendly game of cards at a location to be named later. Probably around dusk or so, next Saturday. Low stakes, I wouldn't want to take unfair advantage you know. Refreshments and all that will be provided.

Excellent. I will finalize the arrangements this week, so and give you the phone numbers so you may make the arrangements for the location of delivery. Sadly, I will be unable to be present this coming weekend for our meeting, due to some urgent business in Berlin. I will return as soon as possible.

*Is staked or he'd be calling Gabe and Johnthan a coupla' Fags.Not like homosexuals or anything, just a coupla' run o' da mill fags.*

Gabriel, a splendid idea, thank you. As for our new house we are still working out a location of choice and the money to back it. I would appretiat each house to donate some amount of money or furnishings for our new home. So we may as quickly as possible find and begin to meet here. Until then, there will be a temporary place of meeting that your leaders will be informed of... so please see them. If all of those holding station would E-mail me so we may keep in contact?

to my distinguished friends: I have spoken with the fine directors of the kresge art center, as well as several individuals I know of with private art collections. All have generously agreed to supply us with a rotating collection of their pieces for our new house, in return for a modest fee. If that is acceptable to you, please let me know either here or at the above address, so that I may finalize the arrangements.

wow. I leave for one week and everything goes up in the air. Can't you folks live without me? :-) Anyway, the reset idea is interesting, but I have a few points about it. First, I have to agree with Sue's post though; part of the problem we had with allowing multiple sects was that a lot of people were bored with cam. Cam is sort of the default setting for vampire. I honestly would like to see something else; either an anarch city, a sabbat city, or even a completely different genre. Face it, there's a billion cam games out there; IMO a different genre/setting could go a long way to making the fortress LARP stand out. Second, much as I think a reset is a good first step, its not the end of the situation. A cam only game, in and of itself, *will not solve the problems we've had*. The cam by itself can be just as fractitious as a multi-sect game, and could very easily end up with clan politics throwing the city into as much chaos as its in now. If a reset is going to be effective, it has to have other aspects to it that encourage some level of stability. Anyway, that's my .02, and to answer a previous post, I will be here this weekend. See ya all there.

I have decided to reset the game. Not that I don't like this character or that one but i just don't like the set up. The reset is long overdue. If someone could please inform those people at Fortress. If we are going to reset the game then we must reset everything including the storytellers. After a long discuss with several players I have decided to let John Wilk be the head storyteller. John and I had the same ideas on what the LARP should be and how to get it there. He also brings fresh ideas and concepts to a game that has gone stagnate. I will once again become a player, perhaps for good. John Wilk has asked for character backgrounds, please make sure they are 100% Cam characters. I ask that you do not look upon this as though you are being screwed. Please think of it as a chance to start something from scratch. That is a pretty exciting prospect. All though the old Fortress LARP history will be gone, we will always have our memories and stories will always be told of the times we had. So as my last request as your storyteller I ask you all to simply give the reset a chance before you dismiss LARP. I look forward to seeing you all this saturday! Bring your pencils and Laws of The Night. We will all need them!

Be advised, big changes are up for Saturday's game. Hopefully the storytellers will let you know what to expect beforehand here (hinthint). If not, drop me an e-mail and if you pay me enough I'll let you know.

Well, it's been quite a week and the previous game was even more so. The Storytellers have been talking and we all agree that drastic measure need to be taken. Therefore the current ST team has been drastically re-modeled. Currently it consists of only myself as head ST and Seth Gardner as the Assistant ST. other posts wll be decided later. Before Pyle stepped down we all agreed that the current state of the larp was not condusive to any sort of cammarilla game in the near future. If you were there you know what I'm talking about. So as his last action before stepping down (we all support this decision)he declared a restart to the game. This means that starting on saturday we will be playing all new characters for at least a little while. All caracters will be camarilla and those who are interested in starting with an ancillae character please e-mail me a character consept/history at the below address. We will be having a short dissussion about setting but it looks most likely like it will be set in a modern day lansing where the Cammarilla just took over the city from the Sabbat. This will give us the experiance of building a city from the ground up. I hope you find this as exciting as I do, and please show up with a character in mind

I CONCUR!

Here are my comments. They'll probably sound as though I'm angry, but I'm not angry. More sad than anything.

If the story isn't reset, then what happens next is that hordes of government and church hunters descend on the city and kill us all. It's the only logical possibility. I mean, how many times has Lansing been declared a Federal disaster area in the course of this LARP? Something's got to give, folks.

The reason we've never had a stable Camarilla city is that the majority of the players have never wanted a stable Camarilla city. Some of us find the idea boring; some of us are so power-hungry that we'd rather kick over the anthill than watch someone else be the queen; some of us just aren't good enough roleplayers to achieve the necessary degree of subtlety. At least half the players have demonstrated a complete inability to uphold the Masquerade, or even understand what it means.

For that matter, I think the current ST corps needs to undergo some personnel changes if we're going to turn this into a Camarilla game. Two of the current STs have been STs for a long time, and never managed to achieve a stable game. If they really want a Camarilla game, they should step down.

Myself, I'm kinda intrigued by the idea of a straight Cam game. I've never played in one. I do think, however, that two things will be absolutely necessary to bring it about:

• All current characters must be destroyed, and all history to date must be erased. Start from scratch.
• The players must not start on an even footing. Some players will have to play elders. Alternatively, the Prince, Seneschal, Sheriff, Queen of the Harpies, and all of the Primogen could be NPCs, but we don't have enough Narrators for that.

To elaborate the second point: One of the things that keeps the Camarilla together is the enormous advantage of position that the entrenched power structure holds over the neonates and anarchs. The Prince and Primogen get a Status bonus for their offices, true, but they should already have a large Status advantage even before they assume power; that's how they get the power in the first place. Also, the Powers That Be should have a near-total stranglehold on the key Influences. Yes, that limits what neonates (i.e., PCs) can achieve; that's how the Camarilla works.

Lastly, the STs have to let go of the idea of "fair play" a bit. If a character keeps breaking the Masquerade, it's perfectly appropriate to have the Sheriff's ghouls break into their haven and stake them in the middle of the day; that's the logic of the game world. Furthermore, players who consistently play disruptive characters should be reprimanded, suspended, or banned. There is no other way to maintain the integrity of the game.

Yes, these changes would alienate some players. Any course of action will alienate someone; even doing nothing is a choice that has its own consequences. Someone has to decide what this LARP is going to be, and take charge of making it that way, or it will continue to bumble along as it has since the beginning.

I hope the STs see this post before the meeting.

I agree Skippy. I've been LARPin' for 2yrs now at FOTME(Fortress for those newbies :) ). I have to say that the times that I have had the most fun is when there is a happy mixture of ST plots, and Player plots. You can't simply have one or the other, but you can lay things out before the players, if they go that path, have something for them down it, if they down, then put something down that path. Weave a story, weave the players in the story while "giving the the illusion of free will". I have to say one of the best games I've ever played in was Skippy's table-top where he took a story and had a direction he wanted the players to go within it, yet he gave the players a sort of illusion of free will, and also incorperated what we did into the story to give it more of a personal feel. Now, I'm not trying to tell people how to story tell or anything, just offering up my suggestions on how to make this larp better. Now I know that there was ALOT of preasure to make this larp a player driven larp. I'll admit, I wanted it as much as everyone else, but in hindsight(which is always 20/20 :) ) perhaps we went too far with it. I think we need to find that happy mixture where the ST's have a story line established, and the PC's are then inserted into it and weave it here and there in sort of (and excuse the reference) "Never Ending Story". I agree with Skippy, if we do it, do it like he suggests, and make a strong foundation on which to build and weave a fun (and possibly dark) story. :)

Hey you guys! do you think we could strt the ST mtg at 5:00? it sounds like we need a long one. BTW, John the Pirate said that he might not make it this week. Therefore it would be good if Skippy came as well.

Thoughts on a reset..

If there is a reset, ALL past character sheets should be taken out of the box. EVERY SINGLE new character must be checked thoroughly point-wise and background wise. Set aside an entire night toward character generation and character history writing, so that everything can be paid attention to.

As for the setting, establish NPC's that are firm. They should have been here for a while, have interests and backgrounds of their own. If this reset is going to happen, it should be done right.

Sorry to spam the page, just trying to keep up on all the postings. Eric(Andrew) I agree, but the current issue is the fact that I know that several of the ST's want this to be a CAM based game. The way it is now is not concisive to achieving that goal. Let's take a rolecall of the city. 3(sometimes two) Gangrel. 1 Giovanni, 2 Setities, 3 Nos (only one of which is Cam and a Prince that is basically independant), A Semedi Seneshal, a tzcimice(sp) and a freaked out brujah of who I'm not sure about. Given that isn't everyone...but that is the corp of us that are there week after wekk. That is NOT condusive to a cam larp...not in the least. I agree that if the story gets out of hand, it is up to the ST's to bring it back around, but the only way they'd accomplish that at this point is a purge, which is basically just resetting it anyway. My .02

Greetings everyone.

It is now thursday and I have recieved only one downtime for the week. Please email me with downtimes. Actions taken durring downtime will help the storytellers decide what actions to take.

I tend to agree Kirk. As much as I would LOVE to see garou come back, I don't want to get into a garou character for only the summer. And, as interesting as the 1920's idea is, and don't get me wrong John, I like it, but I agree with Kirk and I think that is why people got sick of the Dark Ages LARP we had last summer. It's out of context for them. It isn't something that they can relate to. I think that the ST corp needs to sit down, and lay out EXACTLY what direction they would like to take the larp. From what I have seen here thus far, it's pretty apparent that everyone agrees that something needs to change. So, sit down, and lay it all out. Look at what sects/genre you want to allow. If it is to be a Cam game, so be it, Sabbat game, so be it. Just make it FUN for the players. That is what LARP is supposed to be all about. The FUN. I also agree with Kirk, if you want to all existing chars in, go over them with a fine tooth comb. I personally think that in order to due a true reset, everyone except those in power need to start on the same footing, and then turn them loose to gather power for themselves by whatever fashion they see fit. I think that we need to stop thinking of this as a fix for the summer. Such thinking only leads to stop-gap solutions which we all know work for sh*t. We need to think of a solution for the long term if we are all serious about keeping this larp going. We have a strong corp of players and story tellers that we can depend on being there week after week. Yes there are some that come and go, but that is the nature of larps in general. From what I'm gathering 99% of the corp of regulars and all the ST's see the desperate need for a change, and most seem to agree that it is in the form of some sort of reset. So, let's do it. I don't mean to offend anyone here, but we as a group of friends and rp'ers have a horrible habbit of saying this has to change, and talking it over and over and over and over, and then somehow it gets blown to the wayside. We as a group are worse than the federal government with that. We all agree we need to take action here. Most say a reset is in order. Let's do it. Let's save this thing! :)

After reading the various posts here, I'll throw in my two cents. I do seem to have an opinion on everything.

If the LARP is out of control from the storyteller's perspective then it IS. Who's responsibility is it to provide structure, rule's enforcement and NPC's? Pyle, that would be YOU and the rest of the storytellers. A proper reset is the only option. How you reset the game may be up for debate and the setting of the new game is also an option for discussion.

If you want to allow people to continue to play their current characters then go over them all with a fine tooth comb and make them fit in your new world. If the players object to the editing of their characters, give them the option of creating something new.

If you don't set up the rules from the beginning, you are just dooming yourself to continue with the frustration and the problems.

Overall, I don't like LARPs as much as tabletop games. There are always more players than the storytellers can devote time to, always a different mix of players and always the constant variable of who will show up each week. Then add to that the gossiping (in and out of character), the different players and the varying quality of roleplayers, then storytellers change and soon you have chaos. When a LARP goes from a weekend or convention event into an ongoing campaign, you have a serial hell. Plots spin out of the storyteller's control, the animosity between players and characters grows, and chaos just generally grows.

Pyle, of course this game needs a reset.

P.S.

Personally, I don't like the sound of the 1920's game. By setting a game outside of a timeframe that everyone can reference, you put anyone not interested in the historical context at a disadvantage. I'd suggest keeping the game in the current time frame.

I really don't appreciate people putting words in my mouth and "quoting" me by their own selective memory. Alas, the subject of my view on this LARP as well as Tabitha ever returning to the city is not up for debate. I humbly apologise for ever causing such a great disturbance in your peaceful little world. Goodbye, and have a nice day.