Hey Jason, you know how you wanted to smite something?

*points to the the two who made the posts before mine*

Hookers! Hah.

penguinz! penguinz! liked the water so damn much, they traded there wingz 4 flippperz!! and they were sooooooo close..... sooooo close.....((hysterical laughter))

What demo Skippy?

I would like to sincerely apologize to anyone that showed up for my demo on Friday. Skippy's sorry he didn't show up. He's also sorry for speaking in third person. Heh.

Dave we can sign you up at voyager and ill give u a free mouse pad. only 19.95 a month, 10 megs of web space unlimited access.

Maybe Dave should switch his ISP to Voyager.net. (Shameless plug)

My e-mail at the below address is down AGAIN... I'll let interested parties know when I have a new one or its up again, because I know you all have been dying to e-mail me.

I will be running a tabletop Vampire: The Masquerade demo this Friday around 7:00 PM at the Fortress. There are spots open for five players. If you want to play, and a different time works for you, e-mail me. Thanks.

Good one Skippy. Nice to see ever one setting aside the whole werewolf thing for a good round of fun.

New Path guys!
Path of Lazyness
The path of lazyness is a variant of Humanity. Only People who have subterfuge of 3 and the negative social trait: Ass x infinity can take this path. Gangrel who have this trait must have the animal affinty sloth.
5.) If there's a possibilty you can con someone else into doing it ; when the item you want is far away i.e. 5 feet away.
4.) When there's other around to do it for you ; Not saying "I'll do it later"
3.) Not sloppily doing something
2.) Going to a meeting on time ; going outside to smoke in a non-smoking building.
1.) Not building a half-ass invention to do the job for you.

I think the God and Vlad posts plainly show why one of the main White Wolf LARP Rules, and rule number 5 of the Fortress LARP is that LARPing under the influence of drugs and alcohol is not allowed.

Yeah, me too. But Dave, how's that differ from the normal?hehe

@#$confused&%!

I am Vlad VLAD VLAD VLAD!!!!!

Here's god's assessment of larp: Growls from the werewolves, hisses from the vampires, and loud singing about throwing a piggy off the hill in the background. So what if there's going to be a werewolf larp? it doesn't affect us in any way except spacewise. I think we should be nice to the fuzzy puppies with big teeth. THUS GOD HAS SPOKEN!!!!!!!!

Werewolves? Where? *looks around wildly* Don't come near me, don't come fucking near me!!!! *crawls under a nearby table.*

I ate her..mmmmm...

Hey, Skippy do you know where Cheri is?

Hello. Hope everybody had a good weekend.

Skippy, I have the box.

About combat judges, anybody can help regulate a scene if the people involved want them to. However, if someone disagrees with the way something is done in the fight or cant come to an agreement on the rules, get an ST. There is no going back in time because someone forgot to use a power or something similar. We do have rock,paper, scisors cards if people wish to use them.

Currently we do have an FAQ sheet in the box for disputed rules that we have judged on. Feel free to look at it next larp. I believe its up to date, except for character creation changes.

Mark is correct. No weapon props, no out of game threats. It is a game. Everybody understands that. If you think this isn't a game, go home. If you think someone cannot handle being attacked in character, ask them first before you bring them into the game. More than likely they understand that thier character can be killed.

Ok, I've said enough for the moment. ST John will have more to say I'm sure.

Have fun people. Thats what games are for.

No fight but im just letting people know in advance so they know the consequences

Was there a fight at larp?

This is for a few issues that happened at LARP last week and i hope they do not happen again or those people will be REMOVED from this LARP. No weapon props of any kind will be allowed. No touching without the permission of the other players. If your character Dies in game you to not take it upon yourself to take it out of game and beat that person up or you will be BANED from the fortress and you will never come back. We reserve the right to refuse any individual the privilege to play. Have a good time.... It's only a game!

I think Seth Garner has the box Skippy

if I remember correctly seth is in posession of the godbox.

Carpe Noctorum: we do more after 2 am than most people do all day

3 Storytellers? John W., Seth G., and...? Just curious.

Hey, does anyone know where the box is? Did one of the ST's take it?

wow, that post didn't seem nearly that long when I wrote it...

looks like this thing is html sensitive *sigh* there were supposed to be line breaks in there... really there were

ok, here's me running late on the subjects of the conversation. 1. comments on fuzzies A. I've never played ww, but I have multi-G'd larp before, and for the most part it worked. There is one problem however that I feel will become major if this is done here. That problem is space. If ww takes the top floor of fortress, that means that any ww players are going to need to have their scenes interrupted on a regular basis by OOC people walking through said scenes on the way to the bathroom. Also, please keep in mind that upstairs, and outside the front and back doors have been used a lot (in the 6 weeks or so I've been here) for remote location scenes. I have no problem with a ww game running with vampire, but I believe the current logistics of our location will be a major problem in this attempt. B. there is no comment B 2. Combat Marshals A. at saturdays game I kinda jumped right into the "combat at sunrise" scene to help marshall it, I did this because combat scenes can get icky real fast with all the rules, and all the ST's were busy with other scenes. I hope I didn't step on anybodies toes by doing this, especially john and seth, but the involved players as well. B. combat marshalls have worked at games I've played in the past (I was appointed to it in 2 different games *shudder*) but they only work if the players understand that "official" marshals are operating with the full confidence of the ST corp. C. If the ST corp wants to pursue this I will be happy to work with them and anyone they wish to appoint to this position to make sure that things run smoothly, and uniformly. One thing that has allways bothered me as a player is when the rules change based on who's narrating. 3. Things I'm workin on for the benefit of the game (aka me having too much free time) A. FAQ. I informed John (and now I'm informing everyone else) that I am working on a MET FAQ for the game, The meat of this FAQ so far covers disciplines, how they can be used, and what happens when certain ones interract. I'm also considdering adding a section relating to abilities and cancellation, and I'm thinking a weapons list would be a good addition as well, so we have a written list of which guns have which extras (a problem we encountered last game) B. FAQ2 (no, not FAKK 2) if you have a question/comment about this feel free to e-mail it to me, and I'll look it over. After all, it's hard to tell which questions are frequently asked if nobody is asking. C. disclaimer nothing I write down for this FAQ will be official untill it has been 1. submitted to the ST corp 2. Reviewd in triplicate (that is how many ST's we have now right?) and 3. modified/approved by said corp. I'm not trying to change the world, just trying to squish a few bugs. (and hoping none of em are were spiders... they squish back) 4. Me. feel free to contact me about anthing game related or otherwise at tatseosj@hotmail.com or icq 4628751 or baladainjt on AOLIM Carpe Noctorum. We do more after 2 am than most people do all day

Hope every one's larp was good. I should be returning this week.

I don't know what happened to Shawn's email in my last post. It's .

Apologies for missing the LARP without notice yesterday, but I just found out that the father of a close friend of mine died recently, and my friend is making suicidal noises. I wasn't exactly in the mood for gaming.

I'll be missing the next two LARPs as well: 29 July because I'll be driving up to New York to see my friend, and 5 August because of a family shindig.

If anyone can give Shawn and Ted a ride up from Wyandotte, I'm sure they'd like to go to the LARP those weeks. Shawn's email is .

Skippy, I only have one thing to say to that: "Boot!"

Hookers. :)

On a unrealted topic I will not be at LARP the next two weeks. I have friends coming up this weekend and my cousins wedding next weekend. This is in no way related to the werewolf debate. I will try to stop by at some point tommorow to answer questions but next week is out of the question. I will see you all at some point in the future.

Thank you mike, you summed it all up nicely there. However as the Head ST I'd like to get the last word in. I have played werewolf before, both table-top and larp, and I don't come to this issue without some personal context. lastly, if anyone wishes to speak to me about this issue, do so after the larp. Otherwise you detract from the current game. See you tomorrow

Hey John, Pyle and I will be working on the proposal that you requested. We are going to take a couple of weeks to do it up correctly and make sure that alot of thought and detail is put into it. It will most likely be after GenCon when we get it to you so that we can see if revised WW rules have been issued. All I personally ask is that you keep an open mind :)

Everyone else, until Pyle and I have submitted a proposal to John Wilk, please drop the flames and the finger pointing and all the arguing. John has asked us for a proposal, and we will give it to him. We are going to do it the right way and not rush into it. So, until such time as John Wilk approves/denies the proposal that we put in front of him, please consider this put on the back burner.

Mike

Dis reguard my last post about were playing no matter what, im ina bad mood and i didnt think before i posted....

Well, I think this whole love hate thing with werewolf needs to stop. There is no reason to argue this much over something like this. In my opion I belive thatstarting werwolf larp would just liven things up in larp. I may be totally new to larp I belive I have an opion too.

Seth said he was for WW at the Con, has this changed Seth? (Seth Garner that is)

Ok all this anti WW bullshi is pissing me off so get this, Werewolf Opens no matter what , AT THE FORTRESS, weather you like it or not, ill be talking to Eric at Fortress later on today. We will do a seperate Larp. John Wilk you dont like Werewolf, yet you have never played it and you judge it. Good night.

Yet annother issue that I have with the WW thing: Me and seth have been discussing the opening of non-cam PC's and we've both agreed that that is where we wanted the game to expand next. We'd like to introduce PC antagonists that are within the same genre as the game at large as the numbers rise with the advent of students. BTW, Zach, your e-mail didn't help the WW debate any, nothing new was said.

GO SETH!!!! Finaly some one is making sence. Pyle why are you trying to control the game when you are just a player? If we all did that then we would all be thrown in chaos. Look if you want a game start it your self and get out of the way of the vamps alright? To all concernced sorry about the rant it is meary because I am sick to death of reading this. I'll see you all sat.

Pyle, you seem to be talking as though the reopening of Werewolf in the fall is a foregone conclusion. What gives you the right to make decisions for the LARP as a whole? You're no longer the Storyteller, and I don't seem to recall anyone electing you President of the LARP.

Well, nice to see the negativity gone for a bit. Have fun at Gencon Pyle. I'll be the first one to join the werewolf larp when it starts up.

Thank you Seth. The Garou genre will be planned out. we don't pretend to think we can start this next saturday. However, when I return from Gen Con I should have new rules. I would like to have Werewolf open for new players who arrive this fall. We need to start thinking o that. How do we recruit new players in the fall? Last year we did a flyer drive combined with the "Party at The Aud". Unfortunately both of which required a student organization backing. Brass Dragons is dead so we no longer have the opportunity we once had. I think people misunderstand our group. We are not satisfied with how we are now. We always look toward the future and how to make our LARP better. Multi Genre is just one idea I have. For example: Did you know that the power of mite can not be negated by anything? (Even mite) Prepare yourself for a barrage of purposeless. Have a great day.

Well, good to here you guys had a good time at origins. I hope to see you guys next week (God damn Wendys!) Hopefully if my boss stops being anal. Till then heres to a good larp!

Hi all. Hope to see everyone this saturday. We had a great time at Origins playing the "evil" Glasswalkers, but I like our home game better.

My comment on the additional genre issue is that I have only really Larped at the Fortress. When I started it was a Multi Genre Larp. I had alot of fun. For all the battles I had been in with the other genres I have yet to have a character killed. The biggest problem we had was when one genre decided to go after another. It wasn't pretty. All the werewolves died to the fairies. They couldn't stand up to the ray guns and the flying squirrel kick.

I personally like to see everyone play what they want, but we agreed when when switched story teller corps that it would be a vampire larp for a minimum of the rest of the summer so we would have an established vampire comunity.

My best advice for Plye would be to do exactly as he proposes. Plan. That is one thing we do not seem to do to much of.

See you all Saturday.

Paul hebbie cant even spell his own name..lol

Hell, I can't even spell my own name some times... *grumbles about shots of Kalhua*

Well then. First, I thought I was going to have to kill Zach both in and out of game. Then, I read the comment. I apologize for Hebekeuser's comment and misunderstanding. You people should learn to spell his name. That really pisses him off.

Well I hope all this crap gets taken care of. What I saw when I first larped was a pretty organized game. I meen it was a lot of fun. But, this bickering needs to stop. Larp is not supposed to be about who's right and who's wrong. It is in my opinion supposed to be a great gaming experiance. I would hate to see it turn into an all out brawl.

I have read alot of stuff on this board that really sohould not be here. I have been to the larp before the re start and had alot of fun. But I am not speaking as a member of this larp but as an old veteran of many larps and was the head of one of them while it was in it's death throws. I am planning to come back though. Loo this bad vibe gets you nowhere quick. All you are doing is ruening the flavor of the game by causing factions and little out of game war parties that just take so much from it. My little snippit of advice to you is leave the poltics to the floor of the Elysium and try to solve you differences like grown ups and be up front.

Well, nothing that has been said on this board has fully addressed the issues or the trepidation that I feel reguarding this genre. I hope all of you understand that the aguements and my opinions around this issue are not entirely personal (yeah the "I don't like Werewolf" part is but the other points arn't) nor am I "worked up" or angry about this, I just don't like it. Pyle, if you want this thing to be associated with the fortress larp (as it currently exists) write up a proposal that satisfies ALL the issues I have with this genre and I'll concidder it, no promices and it's gonna have to impress the hell out of me. Sorry I feel this way, but I think what you are trying to do will damage the larp, nothing personal. BTW I agree with skippy reguarding the insults of late - stop it.

sorry Zack...

he he

Its Zach!!Not Zack

I think you're all going about this the wrong way. It was great to bring this up for open discussion, but look what happened. And why does it seem that you're asking permission to break away and do a Werewolf game? If you want to do a Werewolf game, what's stopping you? Do you really need permission? Get your players and go. I for one am absolutely bored of Vampire, and have made this known. If I could find a game that I felt was better than this one, I'd go. I wouldn't ask permission. It's a game. You choose to belong to it. If you no longer want to belong to the Vampire game, then don't belong to it. It's all your choice, not John Wilk's, or Pyle's or anyone elses.

One former ST and a newbie to Fortress(I've been attending Fortress for two years now. I'm sorry my financial situation prevents me from being able to stay during the summer.) trying to change my opinion on Werewolf... it's not going to happen. Yes, I have read several Lupine books. I'm much more impressed with current Vampire literature. No, Skippy is not lazy. He updates 20+ character sheets each week, and for that, I commend him. I apologize for playing characters who could defend themselves because other characters couldn't handle a little manipulation, therefore resorting to violence. Anyway, I never said, "no, don't start a Lupine game." I listed problems with it in the past, and why it may not be taken well by a few players. If it did exist in a totally different setting, it probably would work. However, if it detracted from the current game, which is flourishing, then problems would arise.

Leave it to Jordan to outdo the entire board with insults. I apologize on behalf of the board for tredding on your turf oh great Nooker lord. Long Live PANTS!

Ok who let the guy with a bug the size of Kansas up his butt in? Peaple need to do some serious ego checks around here. But, I must give credit where credit is due. Nice word use pants. I have to admit for such an angry person with enough mental problems to keep every phd in the tri county area busy for a few years, you can rip some one a new one. I even have a hard time being so smart I hurt others. So keep up the good work. Your doing a good job of making an ass of your self.

ok..first...pyle..you are a sack of shaven monkeys on crack and your idea is dumb...mark...your hard on fer the game is so big yer pokin' yer eye out..and i won't say which game..it's a secret...das bomb...go light yer self on fire and do some love...zack...do me a favor and find a cannery..conley...stupid rancid sushi eatin' giajin go get the hell out of our country..wilk..you know just about as much as your kilt wearin' tail wagin' tree humpin' 'grel..so stuff it tree hugger...star..go nova..please?..pretty please?..dear skippy...ya know what..i've seen more intelligence coming form a pack of fetal alcohol syndrome troglodites..now go back to yer homoerotic necrophiliac fantasies about hilter, moses, and and that guy from full house...ya i know he's not dead but i wish he was..and if i forgot anyone..ya can talk t'me at the larp and i'll insult ya there..yer a bunch of slack jawed yokel whinos on a two dollar wine binge.

*sigh*

ok this is getting ignorant..the insults need to stop..whats the matter people most of us get along great at game..why cant we do the same on the board.werewolfs/vampires who cares.::hippie accent:: cant we all just get along man?

Great attitude Skippy: "I'm taking my comment page and I'm going home..." And to Zach... you're nothing more then a steaming pile of Monkey feces... Now how's that for an insult!?

Amen Pyle. I like the way you think. I maybe be relitivly new to larp (Just to let all you guys know I play Colin McCloud a malk) I meen I've only played once so far. I found things to be very inviting to a newbe like myself. But, to have such bickering! I belive personal comments should be left to your own brain. If some one is roleplaying crappy let them know and offer some help. I would expect this from any one larping. I would like to see a Werewolf larp to. I for one would join up faster then a fat man can run to an icecream truck. But, planning must be done first. I would like to see this happen. Marry meet to all.

Well this debate has become really personal. Before we degrade even more to simple name calling, lets take a step back to the arguments on the table. John addressing your points:

1: We have stated that the new garou game would consist of mostly new players with the noticeable exception of Mark and Mike. I have always said that our LARP needs to open our doors for the other LARPs in Lansing. Perhaps we could give them an "Olive branch" to increase our numbers.

2: The Garou would take upstairs and outside. There has always been a space issue at the Fortress. With the creation of a separate game I will be able to get Eric to close the Fortress. He has offered to do this in the past if our numbers got large enough.

3. I can not argue the rules point. In the LARP we were just in they fudged the Rules to make them more up to date. I don't like that idea, it was way overpowered. However, Third edition rules are just around the corner. I may be able to get a copy when I go to Gen Con. Even if I cant get a official copy I will be able to get the updates from the game designer.

If there is one more personal insult made on this message board, I will personally go through this month's posts, and remove every single post that contains an insult. Then, I will speak to Joy about getting rid of the board entirely. Good day.

This will stop right now. You guys are acting like five years old retards. No more, for the love of fuck can't you see what your doing? Your splitting up this LARP with this one fucking topic! First i'll start with Adam "bomb'. Are you playing in the Game currently? NO, as a matter of fact I have yet to meet you so my personal judgement on your personal Character will NOT be passed on my judgement of a few of your posts, yet your amazing, you come on here and start posting on a board to a game in which you are currently not part of. You have no say as far as I am concerend and this should just boil down to one persons yes or no answer and That is John Wilk, so sit down and shut up. Conley, I have yet to meet you either but your annoying the holy living fuck outta me, I like werewolf too and I suppose I have a "Hard-on" for the game too. Alot of people do so don't take it to harshly. And Skip[py did as well as he fucking could and I'm sure he didn't mean to run your "plot into the ground". He tried his best to make an environment enjoyable for many He did as best he could so lay off the insults of other players ST'ing capabilities. be the bigger man. Mark, I know you want the game and I will support you guys making the proper proposal to JOHN WILK. Because he has final yes or no approval. Same goes for you Pyle, but Pyle, you shouldn't have brought this to the board yet you sould have ran it by John Wilk first. If you did then my bad for having the lack of info. But Listen guys, this needs to stop right here right now god damnit. This board is not for bitching or anything but GAME realted stuff. And Yes albeit that the werewolf game would be intresting fun and blah blah blah it shouldn't have been posted here yet even with John Wilks premission IMO. Why? Because look at what it's done. Everyone is now begining to choose sides like this is a school yard fight and a few of us are stuck in the middle. This is a Game people! Knock it off, it's not your life. Fucking get over it. There, I'm done.

To Adam, Need i remind you of all your characters you made? I have the bomb i win all ties and so forth? Lets not talk the game down that hasent even started yet.

Adam, Your ignorance is showing again. You do not now nor have you ever understand Werewolf. A game far richer in plot and theme than Vampire has ever been or ever will be. Yes, there were some problems with renown in the beginning, none of these games were designed to be played weekly so some Weres rose in Rank a bit fast. However, to say it was dispensed frivolously is to show a deep misunderstanding of the game. As far as the sub-plots being horrible, well that is an opinion, but at least we were ambitious enough to come up with plots. A trend that I see has only disappeared with mounting ST laziness. Besides this "were hard on ST" had to agree with all the other STs, so hey bub, I 'm sorry you were too boring to appreciate it. When Skippy took over he rode out my plot that I started and ran it into the ground through his own laziness and anal attitudes about out of game minutia. Now as far as the current STs unwillingness to add Werewolf I must say this. If you are head storyteller, it is your prerogative to do as you wish. However, an anal attitude towards this will only ensure that yet another LARP is loosed on East Lansing and you WILL lose players. So the question you should be asking yourself is not how do I end this discussion, but how do I successfully meet a player demand. It can be done. However, you need a Were ST and players that truly understand Werewolf. If you as head ST feel that no one currently at Fortress is intelligent or skilled enough to handle it than I would suggest staying the course and letting the rabble form their own LARP. Your choice.

Adam, have you read any of the werewolf books? Because the Werewolfs and a Dieing Cause, there are less and less of them in all the books, they are a diueing Genre, and like we said the FIRST TIME. We will have minimal interaction. No one wants to give anything a chance. You started Vampire, fresh why not start Werewwolf fresh and let us start over.

This may ruffle a few feathers, but this is a list of why former Lupine games flopped. If anyone can run a Lupine game and avoid these problems, amen to you. This is also objective as a I can be on this issue. When I first arrived at Fortress: Lupine ST had a REALLY big hard on for his genre. If something happened to it he didn't like from another genre, it suffered. Cast was too small. Busy, Rafe, and a couple others(lots of Fae though...). Reknown given out way too frivolously. Later on that year: Again, ST had a BIG hard-on for Lupines. Sub-plots were horrible, especially since they affected other genres. All the PC's were physically based characters except for Skippy, only adding to inter-genre problems. Same reknown problem Beginning of last year: Same hard on problem. Allowing of a vampire headhunt with NO VIABLE reason, in a public place in a highly populated portion of the city. Bad multi-genre plot organization(not only Lupine ST's fault). Again, the reknown problem. When Skippy took over the game seemed fine aside from the small player base.

John i was just wondering but we dont expect you to Story Tell it. Pyle wanted to.

I agree with John on all three accounts. Small vampire games have NO political maneuvering. Vampire games need a good 25 vampires for there to be any. Political games have more than trying to oust the Prince. This is why there was none in previous editions of FotME. Like John, I've been in involved in two Lupine games in the past. Both had very experienced ST's and players, but it boiled down to us fighting the Wyrm. As for Lupines being as scared of kindred, I seriously doubt that. Propoganda in supplements can be misleading(Technocracy's PG for example). *Mumbling to self* Why doesn't WW just release the damned Apocalypse book, so all the bloody furries die... sheesh.

Welp John i thought you would at least listen to what we had to say in person before throwing your denie wall up. You would have 30 people in this "summer " larp if you had Werewolf open. Joel Doesnt come cus he hates Vampire, Alex, doesnt play for the same reason, i was told )Owoso People also would come to play. I do not see your reasoning for this and i would like you to listen to our points in person, if we have to play outside in the back so be it we will. If it means 5 of us break off from your larp as of right now then so be it we will. People fail to see my point, this is a game that takes place on Saturday Nights, if people cannot come and have fun playing what they want to play then why should they come at all? GAME = FUN. Some people take Larp to the next level and its kinda sick. Im not having fun anymore playing a Vampire, and i think im going to do something else until you at least hear our points. Thanks and have a nice day! =}

Sorry, math error - 11-16 players (2 per clan)

Well, I guess it's my turn. You all have added good points to this discussion and the debate has generated significantly less flamage than previous debates. However, there are certian points I'd like to emphisise. Right now we are averaging between 20 and 25 players a week during the summer, these are great numbers and they imply that the status quo is working. The downside is that this is just barely enough players to support the kind of political manuverings that make vampire fun. If we add the other genere, we loose about 9 players from the Vamp larp, bringing us back down to 9-14 players = sucky game for the vamps. Aditionally, most of the staff and players for the Werewolf game are experienced RP's and add alot to the game, their presence would be missed. Second major point: OUR SITE IS TOO SMALL. We are already getting squeazed and have to run scenes out-side. If we have to cut up the area even further it just get's silly. Third Point: Werewolf is not in the same edition of rules as the Vamp game. They are, until a revised laws of the wild comes out, completely incompatable rules wise. Third point: I just don't like werewolf, I've played it before, I've played in mixed games before (regular and con) and frankly I think it sucks in any formulation. At one-night con games you tend to avoid the worst of the crap that comes from genre mixing, however you generally have much tighter plots and a level of intensity that just cannot be maintained over several months (don't even try to argue that one, I'll just laugh at you) But because of all these reasons, I am against opening a garou genre. Frankly, I don't want to run a game with any of those elements and refuse to be associated with any project that involves them. Now, if you want to go off and have a stand-alone werewolf game, you are welcome to do so. Just not on saturday nights, I will take it personally if it conflicts with this game. I have no idea how many cents this is worth.

I won't be at LARP this Saturday, as I will be in the Detroit area. Don't worry, I'll have the sheets done and dropped off at the Fortress beforehand.

*shrug* Yeah, maybe it could work. I'm not certain I care to hang around and find out whether it actually will.

Ok. I am going to retort some of these arguments. Seth, when we went to one genre it was agreed at that time that it was a temporary situation until we have more players. As Skippy points out we are averaging over 20 each week IN THE SUMMER! I think with my idea of drawing some Owosso player with the 2 or 3 players that left because we only OFFERED on genre the vampire game will not be hurt. AS for interaction, as pointed out Garou traditionally leave vampires alone, they have bigger fish to fry. I have to be honest with every one here. I have about 5 or 6 players who are willing to split off from the Vampire game entirely and start a separate Garou game. Wouldn't it be better for the whole LARP if we can discuss this with open minds? Mike Ruyle and myself have ideas for a Garou LARP that we promise will only ADD to the quality of the game, not take away from it. Do not base your arguments on the fact that it failed in the past. Instead, do what Mike and I are doing; Figure out why it failed and find solutions that could make it work now. There are successful W.O.D LARPS all over the world so there is no doubt it can work here. Lets work together to figure out how.

Hey guys, regardless of the LARP...I'm holding a tabletop garou game. That is what I wanted you to ICQ me about :) Below, is the begining plot...obviously you will have to play to learn more...so if you are interested, ICQ or email me. Thanks. The Pure Lands are No Longer. The Perfect Child has been born. The minions of the Wyrm work secretly behind the government to keep their corruption engine going. The Weaver has ensnared most of the land within its web… Your mission: You have earned the Renown to become Cliath. Your right of passage we be the completion a quest. Find the nature of the Red Star. When, and if you pass, you will be responsible for finding the parents of the Perfect Child. They, and only they, hold your next mission….

uhm, heh that is ICQ btw. :) or email me mike.ruyle@voyager.net

if you are interested in playing Garou, please contact me 377313

I think they should be played at the same time how ever i agree with Mike, Great post mike you said bascally my entire mind for the last months. Cept i cant play during the afternoon =[

Ok, I have alot of feelings on Garou. I have to agree with Pyle, the concept that they presented at Origins was fantastic. Garou and Kindred COULD interact if they wanted to, but it wasn't something that HAD to happen. They entire larp, we interacted with Kindred 1 time...and only 1 time and that was only because we had to get some vitae for our totem(don't ask..long story) however, we never once killed a vampire. We could have, yes, but we didn't. I think that as long as there are STRONG seperate plots for both, than the whole argument of "Garou live to hunt leeches" is out the window. I personally would love to see the Garou game return. I'd love to see a strong umbral game. I'd love to see a game where we have to take quests, both in the physical and umbral worlds. If you don't succeed in your quest, boom your totem punishes you. I think that is a great motivator to keep people from being dumb and saying, oh, you are a leech so I will kill you. I'm currently reading World of Rage, the newest supplement for WW. It suprised me at first a little bit, but now looking back on it, I think it makes perfect sense. Garou are just as afraid of Kindred as Kindred are of Garou. Good! That is how it should be! I think you can have a seperate Garou game and Kindred Game in the same building with a minimal of conflicts as long as there are some strong plots. I thing that Pyle wants to ST Garou. I know there are several that would love to play it. If the main issue is "the garou will kill the vamps" than let's find ways around that hurdle. I personally think that a very strong plot that stuck in the garou players minds as "all pressing" would keep random boredom from happening which leads to "oh, I'm bored, I'll go hunt leeches". That is dumb, and if a garou player is just randomly going out and killing vamps, than punish them, if they keep doing it kill the char, if they do it with a new char then kick them out of garou and make them play vamp. There are ways around things guys. Please don't just immediately get all defensive and completely close your minds off to things. In our larp, we have some of the smartest people that I know...and I mean that. Let's put those brains together, and think of a logical and fun way to make the larp fun for everyone involved. Even if it is something as simple as having 1 Garou game, 1 Vamp game, at the same time, but the Garou game takes place during the day, and the Vamp takes place at night (setting wise). Boom...easy as that. We are all(well for the most part) adults, and most of us have very creative minds. Hell if you can figure out how to outwit a a primogen council and all but put yourself in as sheriff, then you can figure a way for us to do this.

Ok if any of you know how ot read, then re read it, this would be a Seperate Larp just allowed to interact and personally i dont really care to interact with the Leechies if i was a Garou. I have better things to do, but anyways the point here is some people would like to see Garou back, if you like playing Vampire thats fine we would do our own thing. BTW please keep the personal Arguments off this boared about allthe Owosso stuff.

*Sighs* Reread my post, I believe if you will reread it CAREFULLY you will see I left you guys out. And thats it, I'm not posting on this damned thing anymore becaiuse people can't READ whats written

Pyle, the Fortress LARP is running more or less smoothly and pulling in unprecedented numbers of players. Why the BLOODY F***ING HELL do you want to change things now?

Personally, I feel we've debated this issue before, when the decision was made to switch to single-genre, and nothing has changed since then that would merit reconsideration. I am not going to wear my fingers to the bone reiterating the arguments I brought up then. I'm just going to point out one thing:

If werewolf characters are added to the game, at least as many players will leave in protest as are likely to be attracted by the change. It always works that way, somehow. The short-term effect will be a decrease in total player population, which is the one thing the LARP can least afford.

The past several posts just beg for a response. Petty and personal gripes don't have any place on this type of forum. It only goes to show your immaturity and your worst personal qualities. So I say this like the old geezer I am, "Don't make me pull this LARP over!"

There's a lot of bad things about LARPs. I've been over this before and though I'd be happy to go over it again, there are a few basics that everyone needs to remember.

1. LARP's are generally open to everyone. So you get good and bad players. Friends and strangers playing the game.

2. Different people come every week and some regulars come every week. Don't expect your personal plots to go on each week.

3. Play nice. Try to respect the other players AND the storytellers. Eventually you'll be in a situation where you are in disagreement or conflict with another player. And there are NEVER enough storytellers to be everywhere.

4. If it's not fun don't do it.

5. If you are in a frustrating situation all the time, then is this game really fun for you? If not, can you make it fun? If you can't....get yourself out of a bad situation. Be with those you like and who help you enjoy life.

I was just at Origins and saw a few different instances of bad LARPers....cheaters, rules lawyering, and group frustration. Make your games fun if you are playing them. You can set the tone for a lot of these things. Be the best at what you do, whatever it is.

Remember, in the argument in Vampires vs. Werewolves....vampires really suck and garou are lunatics! Nuff said.

ok hey all you Owosso gammers... Zach excluded you from his comment... anything else that wants to be said aboutit... e-mail me... the werewolf and otehr mixed would be intresting... however im enjoying the game as it is... IF this could be done wihtout taking aay from the intgrity of the current game... then i've got no problem with it.... but to do that your going to need need more people. which is why i would think that if this is going to work it would have to be when school starts back up again.

ok..zach you must be in a butt grove or something..too bad..brandon got mad because you were insulting his friends..kind of made me mad too...even if you dont like their style of gaming you should keep that in personal messages..i know i would be pissed if you called me a shitty rpg'er in front of the fortress..as far as the werewolf thing..i think it could work although i wouldnt recoment mixing the two without a really experenced st just for werewolf..and i agree that we would need another one for umbra situations...the only question thins brings up is would it be just strickly werewolf/vampire or are mages/wraiths/hunters..exc..allowed too..the point is is there are some people who arnt going to want to play if werewolfs are involved and some who wont want to play unless they can play a hunter..exc..i think it would cause a lot of confusion that we really dont need right now

With my previous comment about the werewolf game said, if there IS a game, I would recommend the following:

Umbra Storyteller

A dedicated person to ST (describe, run challenges, etc) the Umbra. If anyone has ever LARPed Werewolf in the past, the use for this is probably obvious.

I lied, not quite done. Obfuscate is BS? Well... what about Blur of the Milky Eye and Blissful Ignorance(and Camouflage in a nature setting)? Same general effect as the second basic of Obfuscate.

I'm sure everyone knows my opinion on werewolf - They're all a bunch of sexually frustrated adolescent males who are trying to prove that they really do have genitalia by killing a bunch of vampires with the only reasons generally being because they're vampires. I think that a separate game would work if they existed in a totally different setting. The garou don't exist in the vamp's world and vice versa. Everyone is mentioning how garou hunt vampires... let's not forget the psychotic vampires who hunt lupines. As for the garou who interact with vampires... I wouldn't want to be "encouraged" to play a Glasswalker, Bone Gnawer, or any other tribe. If I can't play a certain tribe(other than BSD), I wouldn't want to play in that game. Lastly, I have to disagree about garou having "more to it" than vampire. Take a quick look at how many supplements(ones related to cannon, not game mechanics) there are compared to werewolf. In most cases, a werewolf's sole reason for living is to kill wyrm spawn... for some odd reason, that really doesn't sound as appealling as ousting a Prince without their knowing what hit them, or successfully manipulating the masses into a state of total ignorance(the ONE good thing the Camarilla has done). It took a supernatural effect for the garou(Delirium). Done ranting, need sleep....*yawn*.

LOL the Umbra is BS what do you call Obfuscate?

OKay Mark, I agree with you on most parts but: are you limiting it to Glasswalkers? Because if not there's no way you could allow a red talon or a lupus Get of Fenris because They WILL hunt down vamps no matter if they are lasombra or salubri. Re Talons will also kill people just because they feel like it.

Ok #1 the Werewolf game has more to it then vampire. im sorry but its true its true, there is more spiritual and tons of other things i wont brging up. #2 Thats why we suggested seperate games, Glasswalkers dont kill Vampires, they interact with them, and plus we wouldnt be doing that to begin with. #3 Please keep personal Arguments off this board, thats why they made ICQ and such programs or Email. Origins was Great and im asking John Wilk right now a question. John i saw at the Con they had combat judges. So when ST's are in a Scene and theres combat, a player who was declared a combat judge can runt he combat scene. I am asking for this posistion. I have been re reading all the combat rules and working on a fast combat system. Talk to you this weekend. Mark

Thank you skippy and just a note: Joshua, my setite only had three physicals and was a social character and even well likedby everyone in game. Zeke was the only character in the owosso game that was ever physical and a dick, but thats because he was a malkavian and it went with his derangements. And I'd also like to ask that if you need to speak with me, call my character's "DICK"'s or say you roleplay circle's around me please email me about it thats why I provide my email. This forum doesn't need to turn into a flaming zone. Thanks.

Just another note:

Brandon, Zach was excluding you from his comments about the RP'ers from Owosso. He was saying that you were NOT part of his insult. Just thought I would point that out.

FIRST: Please do NOT hit submit more than once. If your post does not show up, don't worry, it will. Clear your cache and try again. I'll see if I can prune this down a bit.

Secondly, I think going back to multi-genre would be a bad idea. The Fortress LARP is the best it's ever been. I understand that some people don't want to play if it's vampire-only. I have this to say to them:

Play somewhere else.

We have over TWENTY-THREE regulars in the SUMMERTIME. We have NEVER hit those numbers before. Every year after Origins and GenCon, there's some kind of push to change the LARP. Last year the idea was to join the Camarilla fan club. Didn't happen. I don't think this should happen either. Here's my reasoning:

It's going to be really hard for the storytellers. That's the only reason. When things get really hard for the storytellers, they end up getting burned out and quitting, and we get high storyteller turnaround. That's bad. That leads to a LOT of confusion, and a lot of general dissatisfaction in the LARP.

ok, first off, werewolves and vampires, i admit, can work together...oh wait, i dont think that at all! werewolves CANNOT mix with vampires. they're trying to do it in owosso and its nothing but a physical bullshit game and my character, not being a physical one, does absolutely nothing. everyone is always getting attacked by BSD's, and going off to invade the werewolfs...leaving us REAL roleplayers to sit by the fire and bullshit about nothing. the whole umbra thing is gay as fuck and is a MAJOR advantage over our kind...there's MY 2 cents. P.S. To Zack, you will never insult george, paul, or brandon as roleplayers EVER again, you bastard prick. they roleplay circles around you ALL THE TIME.your characters are the same thing in every game i have seen you in; DICKS. there's my 4 cents.

I don't think its a bad idea, but even if we keep the two divided, it still raises issues we had before with two genre's being left without numbers to support them. Not saying it couldn't work, just that its something to consider.

Sorry about the multi posts. It looked like it wasnt taking posts from voyager last night. (I went to 3 computers) So I had Joel try to post it on one machine why I did the split post on mine. When I left last night the posts still were not displayed (Even with "Open in new frame") Sorry for any confussion.

I think its a great Idea Pyle, personally you would get Alex back and Joel. theres 2 more players off the bat, and the seperate games would be like the Con. We dont have to interact but we can. Garou do not just kill Vampires anyways, Glasswalkers certainly dont. I think this will bring more players and help the Larp, thats my 2 cents i am for this idea.

*sigh* I played in the owosso game for a year for a couple of reasons: 1.) Because The storyteller was and is one of my best friends 2.)It was an alright game and I enjoyed it most of the time 3.) and it was the only LARP that was worth the time and money. Now, the problem with the other players from owosso (This does not include Brandon Hebberkiser(sp), The other Brandon , Paul ,George and Justin because really guys this is the cream of the crop from our game) is that they blow as general rper's. Grnated I say this because I have been LARPing for fourn years and I pretty much know how to go about things. The other players, if allowed to play Garou, will purposely kill anything that they come to, even other players, for no in game reason whatsoever. As an example, when I was playing my setite I was in a Cam. city, I wiped out alot of the players and wheen they came back they came in with characters to destroy him, ofcoarse it didn't work because well, the setite was played everyweek for 6 months and I was getting 2 experiance every game, not to mentiosn the xp awards for good rpin' half the time. Now, these guys in owosso still do that there today and will do it if brought over to out game. Really, one of the reasons I Like the LARP sooooo much is because I don't have to deal with it. Just my 2 cents.

Well I think the board has been dead for awhile so I will start the debate fires rolling! After a long weekend of intence LARPING I come home with some fresh ideas in my mind. Some of you know that we played in a W.O.D LARP as Garou this weekend. Well they way it was set up got me to thinking. Why did multigenre fail at Fortress? The big reasons I (and our little traveling group of grim) could think of was

1: Lack of players to make it feasable

2. Too much forced interaction and "Save the Universe" plots.

3. Intra Genre war fare that took away from the freedom of player characters to achieve individual goals

Yup. >:) Heheheh...

You know, you have to wonder if you bought too much White Wolf stuff when they give you the distributor discount.

Oh Sure!Leave all the Broke role playing nerds at home with no social interaction for the weekends!*lol*

I hope everyone had a great time without me last week, and boy do I have stories from that wedding I had to go to, yeesh! Anyway, I hope everyone is clear that we are having a skip week next week in honor of Origins gaming convention, and the fact that almost no-one will be here. I will see you all next week, and yes I'm looking forward to it.

Hello all. Just thought I would say goodbye. We are headed to Origins to experience a LARP on a much larger scale. I hope you all have a wondefull weekend. I know I will :-) See you next Saturday!

Listen Guys, wit' me as Head Security Officer round here I am gonna need about two assistants. You all been pretty stand offish about it but it's for the good of our organization. I need you's guys to step forward and speak up. I already asked a few of yous but you said "no". If dere's something about this job dat you don't like , say the Dnager of it thats cool. I'l be doing most of da work.

I hope everyone had a good time on the 8th. It went better than I expected. There will not be a larp on the 15th as the storyteller core will not be there. Sorry for the inconvienience, but i take very few trips out of the year.

See you all on the 22nd.

Um how is Seth going to be there when hes going to Origins

Just want to let everyone know in advance, I won't be able to make it to next game. The game is still occuring, however, it'll all be in the hands of my capable assistants I am quickly forwarding everything that seth did not get a copy of to him. Next week will be a skip week, so I'll see everyone in a couple of weeks. Now all of you be nice to Seth while I'm not there :)

Wont be on the net for a while guys. Sorry, although I believe I will be able to check my mail but ay schedualed(sp)chats I've had will have to be posponed. Sorry but I wont be on for more than 10 minutes at a time.

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Color absolutely does not = lag. Compressed graphics cleverly repeated or strategicly placed download fast. Even sound loads quickly when in midi format. There are already 110 pictures on this website although they are on a side page, compressed with thumbnails. The page has lots of room to grow before it becomes laggy.

Color and 100's of graphics = LAG DEAL WITH IT