Hey! Can someone tell me what the plans are for the LARP this summer?

Rafe isn't online: no computer. Thanks to everyone that showed up for the feast and LARPIES. If Pyle doesn't at least award 1 XP for attending I'll personally go put him in the Stone Cold Stunner. I'll be joining you all as a plain ol' spin next week. hehehehahahah See you then.

Please, please, whoever brought the meatballs, send me the recipe?

it was a blast congrats 2 thoughs who won awards can't what 4 this summer if posible rafe please e-mail me

Larpies: Tonight... 7pm. More fun than an evening with Skippy... wait a minute, that's not saying much.

HEY SKIPPY HOW COME WE DON'T HAVE ANY NOW PICKS ON THE PAGE?

I will be running a werewolf demo on Saturday, April 29th, at 1 PM. If anybody's interested, just let me know.

::CRINGE:: Good Lord, that hurts, Pyle!!! Turn it off!!! Too bright!!! Make it stop!!!!

Just a reminder that the LARPIES are this Saturday. Please do not forget to bring a dish to pass. The festivites will begin at 8pm. If anyone forgot what they signed up to bring or did not sign up for anything E-Mail me at pyle@alagad.com and I will giev you something to bring. See you Saturday!

Just read the postings for the last week. They are a riot. As for who ever made the comment about being mature... who said you had to be mature to have fun? For anyone who cares not for the changelings, too bad. They will return to infest and the more you struggle against it, the more fun it will be when they return.

Somehow, I do not think that I would like to know what a "Vomitinancer" ... or whatever that term was, is. It sounds, well, vile. Of course, Tabitha, there was no offence meant to you in any way. For someone that has his name tossed about on a board such as this, for all the world to see, Antonio seems to be a very mysterious person. I like that! After all, dear Malcom is right, some aire of secrecy must be maintained, yes? Until we meet, my friends....

§ Pandora §

Just a reminder to you all, as their is a change of guard in the cam, that this board is for all to see - including the uninvited. Therefore the Secrecy should be maintained and euphimisims used. These terms are commonly known in all groups, yes even the Keepers have their terms. I wonder how long the inhabitants of this city can keep something like this up?

Pandora, Maybe you should just go to Potter Park. I'm sure someone there can introduce you to Antonio. Oh, and don't worry, not everyone in this God's forsaken town refers to themselves as "Outlanders". Why, I, myself am a Vomitimancer. As I said, go to Petter Park, find out more. *smile!*

i dun think we are hireing out to much of anything are we malcom? least i ain't.

Malcom, I do thank you for your kind offer to help me. What, pray tell, exactly do you mean by "outlander"? Surely, all of the Kindred in this city do not refer to themselves with names such as that? I am starting to think that this city will be a delightful change of pace from that which I am used to! It reminds me much of a play that I was in, from what I have heard, called "The Blue and the Gray".. you know.. that whole brother against brother thing? Truely fascinating story, you should read it some time. Where, exactly, might I find this ... Antonio?

§ Pandora §

Pandora, I'm guessing that since youre asking about acknowledgement you would want to see Antonio. If you can't find him on your own come to potter park, one of us outlanders can help you find him. Sarah, sorry to see you go, it would have been *interesting* if you stayed. Antonio, the outlanders (those outside the little room) and the italians have both agreed to remain nutral in your fight. If you want to hire us for limited action, same offer goes to the zellots, we are taking offers now. Best of luck to all.

Any downtime can be sent to me at pyle@alagad.com. Still need those histories.

New york City: Chaos has engulfed the big apple, on a scale never before seen. Estimates range widely, but the most reliable counts place close to 10,000 death and three times that number wounded. What began as an apparent increase in gang activity escalated into full scale rioting which spread from lower income neighborhoods to engulf most of the city. Terrorist activities are also suspected in certain areas, including a number of bombings ranging from office buildings to gas mains in affluent neighborhoods. The final blow was a series of earthquakes, culminating in a massive tremor registered at 7.2 on the richter scale. Scientists were suprised at this earthquake, which occured on a major faultline that was somehow missed in giological surveys of the region. The national guard was sent in last night at approximately 11pm to restore order, and the governor has declared a state of emergency, and has requested federal aid in calming the area, and beginning the rebuilding process.

As a new member of this city, I would like to know who it is that I am to speak to regarding aknowlegement? If anyone could be so kind as to point me in the right direction, I, of course, would be most appriciative......

§ Pandora §

After reading the last couple of weeks worth of posts, what can I say? Man, there is so much love here. I love you all!

OOC!!! Just wondering...Since Storyteller Dave is taking a leave of absense as it were, who are we supposed to send our downtime to? Also, since we have three weeks IC, do we have three weeks worth of downtime? Just wondering, for the clarity of the situation. Thanks! =>

I was going to write an incisive message about how pitiful the 6th gen asses were on Saturday but why bother? When Brujah fail to stick together and Tremere fail to obey their regent's orders in public there is not much reason to expect anything better from the NPC's. Hopefully the character driven summer will work out better but the following should be noted: The Sabbat thinks the camarilla are the tools of the Ante-Delluvians and should be destroyed. The Camarilla thinks the Sabbat are a bunch of monsters that should be put down. The gangrel just want to hide out and hope Gehenna passes them by. The Giovanni are in deep do-do. Everyone hates everyone else. Hopes this helps round out the plot for the summer.

I apologize for the bad timing, but I have to leave for the majority of the summer. A very influential member of the Brujah has called me to his presence. I will be available via E-Mail should anyone desire correspondence.

To the Kindred of Lansing

After the events that took place in the city of Lansing this evening, may options have been brought to my table. First and foremost, I would like to thank those that made the offers to me. To the Giovanni family, I thank you for your protection in my time of need. It is acts of that nature that tell me that the Giovanni family is truely interested in a peace, regardless of the motivations and reasons that they may have. Kevin Thorne- Your offer, in and of itself, was one of a peaceful nature, and in the true spirit of that which you brought to the negotiation table. You and what remains of your sect offered a peaceful alternitive to centuries of warfare. While I hold to the opinion that the peace would not have lasted, it was the opinion of myself and other Elders of the Camarilla, such as Cock Robin and Hardestat, that a cessitation of hostilities was entirely necissary for the rebuilding of the city of Lansing. I was dismayed, as were they, to hear that the new Prince had destroyed any hopes of that peace so desperately needed by all.

After carefully weighing all of my options, it is with a clear conscience and the full support of my Camarilla Elders, that I accompany Hardestat to Detroit to assume my new position of Assistant to the Archon there. It is my opinion that it *is* as Timothy Giovanni spoke - you truely are not willing or able to see past the now of the moment, to see what a cessitation of hostilities could have done for the Camarilla of Lansing. I pity you in that manner of thought, for whatever wrath you incur from those that would have had peace, you have brought upon your own heads.

I wish you all well, and urge you to discover what it is that is best for the Camarilla of the City of Lansing. I bid you safe journies, even as I hope that things will turn out as you want and *need* them to be.

Sincerely

Sarah Buchannan, Assistant to the Archon of Detroit, Bjorn Garrison

I must thank you, my children, for such an enjoyable evening. It is unfortunately rare these days that I get to watch the shift of power from one prince to another. Ah, Hardestadt my love I believe the vulgar argot of this tongue is "I told you so". Sal, Malcolm, be dears and call, yes? I would be soooo depressed if I thought you were jilting me. To the rest of you, do svidania! Enjoy yourselves! *kisses*

Hookers.

Goddamnit Beck, I've had about enough of your shit. First you magnimoniously make this LARP single genre (don't give me any of this shit abotu a "meeting" either; I know damn well you chose do make this vampire only over the protests of EVERYONE in LARP even though I wasn't at the metting). Now, you're trying to make me eat blodgett's character! Well, fuck you! I'm going to make my own LARP, with gambling, and hooker's! Now, who's with me?!?

...

Actually Erica, Jordan AND Blodgett: Since the changeling genre was closed out the only problem left has been Steve DeBevic. I'm not worried though, we'll soon be feeding him to John the Pirate. *munchmunchmunch* As for the prospects of ever getting the genre back - - - FORGET IT!! It's MY LARP now... we'll be having no more of what you *changeling players* pass off as fun (lets tie up the Alpha and cut off his head, wouldn't THAT be funny.. hehehehahaha). Hell, you may as well be Sabbat... oh wait a minute, most of you became Sabbat! It makes sense... I only hope one day your Ego will shrink enough to let your brain come to LARP. Then maybe you wont start blowing things up when you dont happen to be the star player that week, but I wont hold my breath. Geez... my three year old nephew is more mature than you guys.

Um, just in case anyone missed it, those rants were jokes making fun of the people that were ranting out of character. Have you ever known Jordan and Blodgett to be mad at each other? Sheesh, things must be getting pretty bad if _I'm_ the voice of reason.

I must agree...those last few posts were pretty grim. Wow, after hearing that OOC Bitch-session, that very well could have taken place through email or over the phone, I'm wondering if-in I really want to come back to the LARP. I actually thought I was gaming with a bunch of mature individuals...boy was I wrong. I apologise for having misconceptions.

well, given the fact that every one of those posts is about 4-5 minutes apart, all I have to say is riiiiight! Next time someone is bored, why don't the go do something a little more productive..

Actually Jordan, ever since I...that's right...me...the Mistress Changeling herself, handed the position over to you, I've noticed that you took it, rammed it in your ass and produced the worse shit I've ever seen!!! GET OFF IT! I may just come to LARP to kick your ass if you don't watch it. If you had half a brain, it'd be lonely!

Please send character histories to pyle@alagad.com Thank you,

I will be suggesting to the STs that they bring some prozac and rope, to tie these two up if things get really bad ... *Said in a whiney voice* CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG???

Ummm.... LARP is a no contact kind of thing .. and um... well... ::Just decides to hide under a table all night::

OK PEDOPHILE CLOWN!..I'LL BE AT THE LARP SAT AND WHEN I GET THERE YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR TWO SOUNDS..THE SOUND OF MY FIST AGAINST YOUR UGLY ASS FACE AND THE SOUND OF YOUR HEAD IMPACTING WITH THE GROUND YOU GLASS JAW WHINO...DIDN'T WANT EVERYONE TO KNOW THAT DID YOU...THAT YOU'RE A FUCKING DRUNK AND IT'S A GOOD DAY IF YOU CAN KEEP FROM DRINKING AN *ENTIRE* FIFTH OF RUM!..KEEP TALKIN SMACK ABOUT MY CHARACTER AND RETESTS AND I'LL SHOW YOU A REAL LIFE "I'VE GOT THE BOMB AND I WIN ALL TIES"..SEE YOU AT LARP BITCH

THAT'S IT, YOU RAT-HUMPING FUCKHOLE!! YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE ME AT THE LARP THIS SATURDAY, THEN _DON'T SHOW UP_!! IF THE ST'S HAVE A FUCKING PROBLEM WITH MY FUCKING CHARACTER, THEN LET THEM DEAL WITH IT!! I WON'T EVEN _GET INT0_ HOW YOU WERE CHEATING WITH ALL THOSE RETESTS AND SHIT YOU DON'T HAVE FOR THE PAST 2 FUCKING MONTHS! THE _LAST_ THING I'M GOING SAY TO YOU IS _GO TO HELL_, JORDAN!! AND DON'T GET YOUR FUCKING WEAK-ASS CHARACTER NEAR MINE!!

ya want relevant and intelligent cock monkey...first of all we might need to pull your lilly white ass out of your fantasy world where you can maaaaagicly "flicker flash" people places or things and bring your crack smokin' ass back to reality for this lil'ditty..so listen up cry baby..you're a fuckin graduate student in mathamatics..go cry me a river on your mom's saggy ass tits and when you're done getting your diaper changed listen up..ya want this to end...i want it to end..i want it to end with your cheating, meta-gaming, and lying ass out of the LARP..this is a place for fun, games, and relaxation..and your damn presnce is causing so much strife and turmoil that people are commenting on how they want to quit because they despise your presence so much...so take your long hair hippie ass and hit the damn road bitch..i don't want to see hide nor hair of you at larp this saturday..and if i do there's going to be HELL TO PAY!...

Lookie, here, Fucks With Selkies, the Changeling genre is doing _just fine_ right now, thanks to me. It's not my fault you alienated everybody with that "red pen" bullshit and the like. Also, it's really embarassing and hurtful to have all these things posted _publicly_ on the board, so knock it off, asshole. And don't give me this crap about having fangs, either; you know damn well that Steve has fangs half the time. I've actually got an idea on how we can solve this whole mess: why don't you try posting something relavent and intelligible for once instead of a bunch of idiotic insults and bullshit?? If it wasn't already there, I'd Flicker-Flash your head into your ass...

ok ya punk ass bitch..listen up...the damn reason that i'm not a ST now is because of your crappy-ass job of being my narrator!...because of you the ENTIRE changeling genre went to fuckin shit!...everyone left the group and now we have to play stupid vampire...oooo...i have fangs...oooo...i suck blood...OOOO I FUCKING SUCK!...vampire is the most lame ass rpg that i have EVER encountered..and all because of your dumb ass we're all forced to play it...20 different people told me how they would have loved to play in my game if you weren't there as the narrator..also what the hell are you talking about not telling anyone about how my character's sire is in league with the baali and is a 4th gen...you did it at Theos and you're doing it now...all because of you i will have to come up with a brand new character..THANKS YA SLACK-ASS SLOOGE MOPPER!...

WTF?!? I make one little comment, and you tear my throat out! For your information, I didn't say _shit_ about how your sire's in league with the Baali; someone else must have been spreading that around, dumbass. Also, as far as I know, yer not a storyteller anymore, bucky, so don't even post that shit! Furthermore, if you don't like my character, than find a reason to get rid of him IN GAME!! Now, stop flaming on the board, asshole: nobody wants to hear it!

ok...listen up bucko..i'm not going to comment on what i hear you say about MY character to everyone last LARP...you know how UBER confidential that was...only two storytellers knew about it and now it has been spread about the ENTIRE larp..and i was a storyteller if you do not remember...i know all the rules about posting on this message board..and i was not posting on my own behalf i was posting on the behalf of a storyteller...so if you have a problem with that you can talk to him yourself and you know who i am refering to...also this message board is for IC postings or DIRE postings of the OOC nature..and this qualifies for the latter buggo...so tough shit and take it...we have a serious problem with your character and something must be done about how bad he is..he is COMPLETELY unbalancing the game!..

Okay.. First of all, this message board is for in character chat, NOT for OOC whining and bitching. Next, if a player has a complaint, _especially_ about another player, he should talk to the storytellers about it, not bitch in front of everybody. Finally, I'd thank people to stop meta-gaming about my character; a lot of that shit nobody knows in character, and now all the dumbasses are going to use that information. Thanks a lot.

ok...i think it's fragin' unbelievable that blodgett and his uber powerful pc gets all these grim gifts...i mean getting possed by a..well i can't say what it is but it's grim..and then getting a pokeball full of this evil deamon pokie pet that's really a tame..well thing..i can't say cause it'd ruin the game...and the doom thing was tamed by the uber steve possed by you know who...this is completely unfair and should be fixed NOW...

Powerful Elders *cough**cough*. Anyways, just saying that I personally have been having one heck of a time..probably the best since I battled to save what I personally consider your worthless, and foolish lives. (cheaty music) Richard Dursky, CEO, Black Dog Game Factory, had sex with an eskimo, an impaired Lupine who should be dead. You remind me of one of those people that think their very presence invokes fear yet actually invokes an immediate chuckle. I suggest consulting Skippy. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE 21ST CENTURY buddy. Everyone is worshiping the devil. I hope your "my dick is bigger than yours" devil comforts you with a sense of power in your life, Mr. Dursky. YUM,YUM,YUM lighten up and have fun among other things.

please, please, please send me an assistant? Please get in touch with me. tell me where the hell the Elysium is. Maybe pointing out the elders. please save a seat for him.

Alive and livin strong - Mr. I'm final death already - Ian

plot revolving around the characters? Feh. The actual plot for the summer will revolve around 2nd generation abomination ninja mages coming to town and arbitrarily killing PCs. The plot will culminate at the end of teh summer with the remaining PCs being forced to fight caine, losing, and then spending the rest of their existances cleaning toliets. It should be great!

I know all of you want to know what the plot will be once summer hits. Well that is up to you. The Storytellers would like to run a plot revolving completely around player character backgrounds. In order to effectively do this I need your character histories. I realize that you may have turned in histories prior to the other story tellers, I am asking you to send them again to me now. I am offering a 3 pt experience bonus for doing this. (This will also reflect your character's "Downtime" during our week off) Your advantage is not only the points but also plots revolving around your character's background. You, the players, are our source for plots this summer... please, please, please send me character histories!!! Thank you in advance,

Fare, all I have to say is "D'oh!"

bart you loone you have my #;call me

Hey Fare, I heard you're the new scurge. Do you need an assistant? Because, if so, I offer to fill that position. Please, contact me if you're intrested. I'll let you know that I have some talents that might be useful to you.

Hey, everybody, this is a game. I mean, the reason I come to play is to lighten up and have fun. Isn't that the important thing?

Hey, i'm new here, can someone tell me where the hell the Elysium is.

Malcom... need to get ahold of you... some questions concerning a brujah. among other things.

Malcom~ Please get in touch with me.

Sarah Buchannan, Camarilla Prince of Lansing

Have we all resorted to petty adolescent ramblings and "my "dick is bigger than yours" bickering? Hello people of Lansing's nightlife! Haven't we gotten over this? How old are we? How many aeons and lifetimes have some of us existed? Why can't we all just get together and speak about this peacefully? We CAN see past our differences and make this city the pleasantry that we all know it has the potential to be. Doesn't anyone agree with me?

Jason, I see that you are considering me a mortal... Interesting. I thought even Sabbot Kindred more astute. As fore flaunting ownership of an insignificant city, I agree with you. I merely stated ownership of the city due to our control of the city's influence. I forgot that only those of the Camerilla claim ownership based on those qualifications. I will hold off on claiming ownership of the city via sabbot tatics. Even we who worship the "devil" are not that blatant, we save that for the Anarchs and Brujah. To the rest of the Kindred of Lansing, Mr. Sunflower will be a little late for your Conclave, please save a seat for him.

Um...Mister Just for the Hell of It...as for where have all the elders gone...can't you find them yourself? Isn't it blatantly obvious?

Doc Bones... Michael, Kafir, Ken?... Maybe his next should be Mr. I'm final death already. To the dear Bianca, if you wouldn't mind pointing out the elders, YUM,YUM,YUM.

An interesting post Mr. Dursky. I shall have to forward it to the inquisitor general and regent. I'm sure both will find the irony of our food lecturing us on why we should worship an insignificant being such as the devil amusing. As for your suprise as you put it, I tasted what you had to offer, and the philosophy it instilled in me and found both wanting. I hope your devil comforts you with a sense of power in your life, Mr. Dursky. I find that being a vampire provides all the sense of power I need. As for your proposition that you "own" this city, good for you! I applaud lesser lifeforms when they show some form of cunning, however primitive it may be. I would humbly suggest, however, Mr. Dursky that you not flaunt your "ownership" of this city. You already demonstrate a lack of subtlety in your control by letting all the vampires in this city know who they must liquidate to gain the power they desire. And as much as I may admire your cunning for such among the cattle, you are still a lesser life form and as such a minor hurdle even for the camarilla.

Alive and livin strong

Jason, I have considered your advise and have decided to leave. No, wait, I'm not Tremere. I think I shall stay and see if your pathetic horde can conjure up enough influence to even annoy me. I must say Jason that I was some what surprised to hear you speak out against the Company since our last deal left your cured from a plague and twice as strong physically. We here at Black Dog games have always had excellent business relationships with the kindred of the sabbot. Oh that's right you have been neutered by your pathetic inquisition. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE 21ST CENTURY buddy. Everyone is not worshiping the devil. Why should we lower ourselves to worship a lesser power anyway? I hope the rest of your sect that still follows Cain wont be swayed by your pathetic relgious ramblings. As for Lansing, I hear you are having a Conclave this weekend, how touching. I am sure you will not mind if I send our Director of Public Relations Mr. Sunflower over to attend. After all, it is OUR CITY, even if you are too idiotic to realize that yet. GOOD DAY TO YOU ALL.

The only person who has the BOMB and wins ties, is ME. Whoever these mock people are do not know the fine intracies in the art of mocking. I suggest consulting Skippy.

I must commend those individuals involved in the attack on Granger. The pentex division within this city has been harboring the infernal for too long. To Richard, I suggest the following: leave the city now. Your threats are pointless, a fact further aggravated by the fact that you are cattle, fit for our consumption and nothing more. To the vampires of this city, I have only one request: leave some of these worthless maggots for the inquisition to enjoy when we return to the city. I can assure you, we can make them suffer in ways you cannot even imagine.

I was merely letting Ms. Buchanan know I had returned to Lansing. Is this not what Camarilla loyal kindred do, so as not to violate one of the Traditions? Who are these rude neonates who do not respect those of elder standing? I sincerely hope Hardestadt's presence ends these rants by disrespectful and cowardly childe.

Kastor, are we supposed to be fearful? You remind me of one of those people that think their very presence invokes fear yet actually invokes an immediate chuckle. Or, wait, are you all dressed in leather now and were shades and carry a shotgun? Oh wait, you never said "I'll be bawck"...so you must just be posing and jocking for position among your supposed friends. Have a nice day.

Excuse me sir? NO SHUT UP I WIN ALL TIES, DIE DAMNIT, I HAVE THE BOMB. sir? NO excuse me????? I WIN ALL TIES NO MATTER WHAT IT DOESNT MATTER, I WIN ALL TIES IN EVERY SCENE. oh im 3rd gen now to i had sex with an eskimo and i got that.

No Adam Bomb retest for you, I have Adam Bomb Negate. Heh :)

WEEEE, i win all ties, i have the bomb, im 4th gen, ok time for a new char, no i win all ties, what are you talking about what??? all my characters win all ties, and a Tremere has a chance vs a rank 3 Gauro that never died. oh buy he wins all ties, thats right, and i have the bomb, Every ability retest. no wait ADAM BOMB RETEST!!!!!!

Refuge?Mire? are they going to attack us with bad spelling? Stick to messing with the doggies.

Hmm... The Rock versus an impaired Lupine who should be dead. The Rock in a 17 second match.

Due to the unnecessary attack on our Granger refuge plant, I am afraid I am forced to cut all business ties with the Kindred of Lansing. Before you all start to snicker and say "Big loss" I assure you that dealing with us is a much preferred tactic to alienating us. I am quite certain that your city has never been threatened by the resources an international company like ours can bring against it. "Billy" was a mire sampling of what you are likely to see. Enjoy your summer fools...

You turn yer TV on you see this add... This is Jerry the King and Good old Jim Ross dont forget to tune in this week to caught the fighting Wolf take on The Rock, Martel vs The Rock this week on Smackdown..... (cheaty music)

To those that helped this last weekend with our battle for the continuation of our kind in this city, I bid you a prosperous life.

To those that did not, I hope that you enjoy the wrath of the heads of your sect in the city. Oh, yes, and you are welcome from all of us that battled to save what I personally consider your worthless, and foolish lives. However, none of you are from my family, so you have nothing to fear from me personally...

To the leaders of this city. We are on the brink of having long lasting peace in this city. I beg you all to see the possiblities of such an historic event. We have a city before us that had fantastic possiblilities of becoming a major hub within the U.S., instead, people flee and the city suffers because people are more interested in blowing things up and killing others on a whim because they are mad than thinking of the long term reprocussions of such actions.

This actually, leads me to a good point that I have been meaning to make. I believe that most of you must have no perception of your exsistances. This of course doesn't apply to all, but most. So many of you are tied to "thinking in the moment". This is a flawed point of view for our kind and I believe this is why this once proud city is crumbling to "ash" right underneath our feet...

Please contact me at the address listed below if you wish to have a hand in making a lasting peace in this city.

I agree with John. I have to say that, even though it has made for some conflict at times, the first option has worked really well. Yes, people have died in the game, some more than others, *cough*Jacob*cough*, but all in all, this semester has been one of the best larps that I've seen in awhile. I think it can get better though, as alot of people are in agreement of only one thing...to disagree. I think the way that the larp is going right now is more true to how things go in real life. Some get along, some don't. New alliances are made, old ones fall to bits in a matter of minutes. People make rash judgements on rumors that are spread by those that would seek to gain from such things. Etc. Anyways, just saying that I personally have been having one heck of a time..probably the best since I played my garou. Laters!

That depends on what you consider an Elder. If you consider several 8th generation vampires who have only been around a few dozen years to about 150 years to be Elders, then we have a lot, probably too many. However, if you consider it by what the supplements say an Elder is, there aren't any.

I thought we already had Powerful Elder PCs in game. Am I wrong?

IMO NPCs & PCs of the GLA should call the SPCA, CIA, AFL-CIO, UAW, MSU and LPD to get control of the LARP. TTFN.

'kay, I'm not going to get into the player dispute aspects of this discussion, but I do want to bring up one thing. When we went to the one genre LARP with different sects being represented, we knew that there was going to be diametric opposition between different groups of PCs. The sabbat and camarilla are mutually antagonistic, and the giovanni and independents will typically play both sides to their own advantage. This is a difference from when we had a multi-genre LARP, where certain groups (ie werewolves and vampires) were antagonistic, but generally had their own plots and matters not completely centered on the other group. While things have gotten more overt and chaotic than the original intent had in mind, it is still no where near as bad as it could have been, if the sabbat and camarilla had seriously gone to war (ie a full scale crusade). There are always going to be PCs plotting against other PCs, regardless of whether we are multi-genre, single genre with multiple sects, or an all-cam game. That's the nature of LARP; PCs plot against PCs, and things sometimes get chaotic when one group makes a bid for power against another. If people want less conflict, then I see 3 main options. First, we could do what has already been going on, with coteries being formed and power bases established on a mainly PC basis. Lisa and others have already been doing this, and while it offers more conflict than either of the other two options, its still relatively stable. Second would to be to allow certain players to bring in powerful PCs who could maintain order. Third would be to have powerful NPCs establish order. I don't like either 2 or 3, because they reduce PC control of the game to a select few, either a few PCs or some NPCs. What's more, judging from what I know of the preferences of the other people in the LARP, I'm doubting any of you would prefer 2 or 3 either. If anyone has other options on how to bring more stability to the city than these options, feel free to post 'em. Otherwise, the first option is the one that's going to happen, and IMO the best one for the LARP overall.

Curiosity killed the little monkey. Don't mess with the Prince.

I'm back....

I'm a doctor not a Kindred, but it appears Lisa is right. Dead (Michael) Dead (Kafir) Dead (Ken).

::snarls, and makes humble apologies to Pyle for the OOC::

Alright ... You know, as far as the Prince thing, and the way that she has been played, I have to tell you, if I werent playing her at least 1/2 way decently, I would not have gotton 2 plot advancement awards. Sarah would be DEAD, or gone. The Princeship is about popularity to an extent, it is called diplomacy. You have to be liked to stay Prince. Maybe not all of the time, no, there are always gonna be times that people disagree with the decisions of the ruler of the city. Sarah has managed to do a lot of things, however. I am *really* sorry that Michael wasnt the peoples Prince, and I am really sorry that you are still pissed off about that, but you need to get freaking over it. I dont know every rule of LARP and VtM by heart, no, and I still need people to give me an occasional helping hand, but dammit, I am doing the best that I can with my FIRST LARP character. And I, as well as more than a few others, think that I have done a pretty damn good job. Get over the fact that Michael is dead DEAD DEAD, and just make a new character that doesnt have the overthrowing of the Prince on his mind as soon as he comes to the freakin' city!!! I already heard your *NEW* character talking about Sarah behind her back, and you are lucky that I am not a metagamer, or a powergamer, or I could have claimed IC knowlege of that, it was on the carpet, downstairs, whether I was IC or not. If you are going to do that, then expect some kind of retaliation, cos after all, Sarah is Brujah.. and the Prince. Talking about and plotting against either a Brujah or a Prince behind their back is not a good thing. Just let it freaking go....

I WAS NOT HAPPY TO FIND OUT THAT 6 OF MY BUSES HAD BEEN TIPPED ON THER'ER SIDES BY THE GANGREL ON SAT, NOT TO MENCHEN THE ONE DESTROID AT THE DUMP. IT WOULD BE APPRIEATED IF IT WAS REPLACED. I SHOW YOU HOSPITALIY BY HOUSEING ELYSUM ON MY PROPERTY, AND LOOK HOW I'M REPAID

Fayre, just kidding.

Hey, Fayre, got a bus? *L*

YEAH!! Hey, instead of the fifty bucks, can I just bring a keg or something?

By Invitation Only. By command of the Prince a new Elysium is announced. Stanley Bros. Tool and Die factory has been renovated for the comfort of those welcome by Prince Sarah. For parking permits call 555-Park. Reserved seating $50 standard charge. Tresspassers will be persecuted.

Shush, you! We're... I mean they're not here! Heheheh...

Just because the Sabbat that are still in Lansing aren't going around blatantly massacring the citizens of Lansing doesn't mean they aren't there. . . .

2 Giovanni right now no sabbot? i dont see these large numbers.

More PC death when fighting the Lupine equivalent of a Methuselah!!!

Cant disagree with you Jacob on most points. However, I do believe you missing one point: Fun. When we discussed going to an all out VAMP Larp we decided to allow pc sabbot and giovanni because experienced players were tired of playing cam. Now I agree that originally we allowed way too many pc sabbot and giovanni pc's but it has leveled out to a good number currently. As for the prince issue, I agree mostly with you. However, Sarah Buccanon has surivived as long as she has because she has the support of her people. Micheal failed because he alienated the entire genre. No prince can be successfull if everyone is out for his head. Sarah has established a coteire who holds postions of power in the city. If the majority of players wanted her gone she would be by now. As for restructuring... I would perfer that to be done in game in character. If you want to sabbat out.. GET THEM OUT!!! New sabbot may be allowed on a case to case basis... Same as Giovanni, Setite, etc... Switch the set up of Lansing in character, you will feel like you accomplished more that way. Talk to every one later,

I have to agree with Adam. Way to much is allowed at this LARP, now I dont have a habit of power gaming anywhere else, but here...I mean I play a 13th gen Nosferatu, and a 13th gen Ventrue in the other two LARPs Im a member of, and neither hold any status beyond acknowledged, or any positions of power. Of course these other two games are also alot stricter. They are very strict Camarilla games, with a few pc's that are independant/sabbat. Of course to play one of those you have to be present for so many games, and write a very good and elaborate background to show you will put in the time and effort necessary to play that sort of character or position. That rule applies for anything but the most basic of Cam characters. Perhaps we should use that here? Start enforceing that players turn in backgrounds and concepts before even stating the character and then if the ST's like the idea, allow them to stat it. Another thing that I think would help is playing this city as more Camarilla then Autarkis. The job of the Prince isnt to be the most popular, or well liked guy in the city, by the very job he/she will make decisions that piss people off. The job of the Prince is to protect the Kindred of the city, they do so by enforcing the traditions and anyother laws they may feel are necessary. Michael may of been disliked, possibly to the point of hatred, and yes there were problems under his rule. But only those that defied the Tradtions ever died. You had to do more then disagree with him, or his way of thinking. I mean even when people tried to overthrow him, no one died. Disagreeing with a Prince and its decisions is no grounds for murder of the person, unless the prince feels that weak. But anyways. Since Michael fell, and this city has fallen to Sabbat, Independants, I mean just about everything, while Michael wasnt well liked, he was willing to do what it took to keep the city protected and in cam hands. The following princes were to worried with popularity, to consider the consequences. Granted I had only 1 or 2 sabbat PC's that were in game when I ruled. But they didnt cause have the trouble that those same few are causing now. They were discovered and destroyed quickly. Cam justice is quick and brutal, so it will be remembered, and so others will fear suffering the same fate. Humanity says no killing humans, not other vampires. As for the Giovanni, Michael had to deal with them as well, same PC's I think too... He kept them in line, maybe not under his thumb like he would of liked, but they werent have as open in there dealings, or actions against the cam. And of course I had the hunter blade thing to deal with. Up until the riots caused in the city due to the actions of certain kindred, who because I punished them for putting the whole damn city at risk and almost causing martial law, and then overthrew me. Were being dealt with. And they werent offing vampires, or assailing us in our homes. They only were bothering our businesses. And lastly thank god none of you have to deal with little lego people that sing here comes the sun....or stuck up arrogant Sidhe snobs. Michael may not of been mister popular but the city was alot safer then it is now. At least if you were a loyal cam vampire, and not tring to Kill the prince in Elysium, or breaking the traditions. Thats the real reason I feel this game has degraded. No one has been willing to do the job of the prince or anyother position for that matter. Sometimes it means not being popular, sometimes it means being hated, and being Prince ALWAYS means have a huge read target on your back. If you cant handle that, you shouldnt be Prince. Oh shoot, forgot to mention the furry's I had running around to deal with too. Sorry for my little rant, but I definately think IC and OOC that this game has degraded due to lack of experience from the players. They are great people to RP with, but lack the knowledge of the WoD to play Elders or Princes. When the Tremere regent doesnt realize the is supposed to hold a trait of blood from all in his chantry, and that all transfering tremere get their blood sent ahead of them to the new chantry there is problems. Why do you think a Tzimisce infiltrated the hardest clan I can think of, next to Ventrue to infiltrate. Actually harder. The blood isnt there, that Tremere shouldnt be trusted till it arrives, while it may take months to track down and verify a Ventrue's heritage. But the two HARDEST cam clans to infiltrate were both successfully done. Im ranting again I know and Im sorry, This post probably wont be well received, but Ill take credit for it cause it is my view point. Sorry if this offends anyone, it is in no way or shape meant to do so. I apologize for its length as well. lOL, hope not all of you hate me now. Talk to you again later, I suppose.

Yoiu Expect my Mental 3 Garou to be walking around writing books, and making potions that cure people? HE HAS MENTAL OF 3, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT

Seth, im getting very sick of yer bitching real fast, i quit playing my werewolf because everyone wanted a Vampire Larp, then i play him for one night and alli hear is bitching, all the posts on here i see, is either you bitching or some kind of complaint about something. I just started larping this year, and im already being told what i can and cant do by players, several times, you have made ruling and yer not even a ST, maybe this summer we should do a all Werewolf game, maybe we should vote on it. You wonder why people dont ever look at this board. TRY EMAIL SO WE DONT HAVE TO HEAR IT................

To those who follow the Wyrm, I challenge you! As it is written, those who seek the path of impurity and corruption shall war with those who seek enlightenment and freedom. Bring forth your minions, that they may do holy battle with the minions of Gaia! Meet my challenge, and watch helplessly as your spawn are easily defeated; ignore my challenge, and expose yourselves as the cowards and weaklings that you are! I await your response..

Fayre, please contact me. I can help you!

Yo, all you pansy-ass Sabbat bitches!

I'm the new Sherrif in this city, and you sons-of-whores are gonna get some serious hurtin'. Your asses better be leavin' town already if you wanna live one more night.

BOO-YA!

Thank you Pyle... if I wanted to hear bitching like that I would move back in with mom and dad. For the love of Pete, can we just play the freakin' game???!?!?!?!

Big Brother is watching you! Ha ha ha!

Why has this message board be degraded into a rant page with an occasional rules debate? This page is designed for in character discussions or announcements. For the love of BOB knock this shit off. There is a reason why the amount of posts have dropped considerably in the last couple of weeks. Please, once again, send any complaints about the LARP to the storyteller core. Unlike most LARPs this storyteller core has proven itself to open for suggestion and in some cases have actually changed previous decisions. (For example: Combat rules) So to summarize: Don't post bitches or rants, send them to us.... we can take it.

One of the reasons what has been going on is becuase, quite frankly, too much is gotten away with in Lansing. I also don't think I'm being unfair. If I am, someone, please, tell me. I've actually been told I've been too leniant, which I agree with. Also, the last I read, rogue gargoyles are generally hunted down and exterminated, especially if they degrade(in public on top of that) a Tremere Elder. As for the situation with you and Vanessa, do what you want. It's your and her characters. I simply informed you it _might_ not be a good idea.

'cause we love ya, guy. Or at least skippy does. In a very real, very carnal way.

Gee, Adam, maybe if you hadn't given me a choice of either metagaming or killing my girlfriend's character I might have turned in a downtime this week.

In future, please don't trouble me with information my character has no way of knowing. Furthermore, you might consider being a little less cavalier in allowing elder Tremere to instantly sense and eradicate any neonates who deviate from Approved Thinking. It's just slightly cheaty, not to mention no fun for the players. Thanks ever so much.

Someone remind me why I bother to drive 140 miles every week to play in this f***ing game. Maybe I should have stopped a long time ago.

At least someone heard them...

Wow...those are some damn loud crickets... I think we need some pest control here...

Uh, downtimes? Sabbat? Tremere? Hello? *crickets chirping*

Your Revel is this week? Damn! It looks like I wont be able to come.

The lord has summend his wariors to Lansing! This saturday will be a grand celebration of song and tales. The lord wispers to me that his beasts must do battle again. So be it master! When your hammer strikes the Earth it shall be cleansed of its taint. When the smoke clears we the chosen shall stand alone in your glory. Those seeking redemption rejoice for it is upon you this Saturday! Seek a cabin in the northern woods... Brother Malcom, shall we hunt?

I'm willing to listen to a complaint too. shinaba3@msu.edu

Niteleg,

I may be able to assist you. Please contact me at the address below.

Thank you.

If anyone has a legitiment complaint they can send it via e-mail to aaron.ledger@voyager.net. Please only use the board for In Chracter comments or Out of Chracter annoucements. Thank you,

The good Dr. Fairchild was working on a number of projects the most lustrius of which was a cure for the plague. I am more intrested in some of his more "trivial" works. If any one can obtain a copy of the desired info or give successful clues to the Doctor or his notes I will make it worth your time.

Are my eyes decieving me? Can it be true that the kindred of this city are ignoring their rights and responsibilites in gardening this city and it's inhabitants in order to squabble with each other? Letting this capitol landmark fall by the wayside of medocrity for mere pride? Content in the status quo that you neglect to make your mark, to breathe life into this place of potential? If you and your kind can't or won't do it, I will. Catch me if you can.

I would like to officially object to a rogue gargoyle being present in Lansing. Isn't there enough weird shit going on in Lansing?!?! Why the hell is there a scholar gargoyle in Lansing?! These things, rogue gargoyles, get hunted down by loyal gargoyles immediately if not fried at a distance by their "sires". I also agree with Skippy, but sometimes its not a bad thing.

I would like to officially object to yet another uber-powerful NPC brought in. This one is brought in because the LAST uber-powerful NPC was getting smack-talked. For the love of Bob, the storytellers should stop trying to one-up each other with NPC's. This game is about the players' characters, not about the NPC's.

Mr. Smythe has been given an alternate assignment. I am taking his place as Tremere overseer of Lansing's activities. Two issues have arisen in the last few weeks. From Smythe's information, Casey Argo has gone missing. Any information on her whereabouts will be rewarded. Secondly, Tiberius, I would like an audience with you, perhaps with Mr. Tully, and the Giovanni. While, I am not a scholar of social theory like yourself, I am content to debate on other issues.(OOC - To the Cammy's and former Cammy's: Common sense dictates not insulting this guy: 8 Status traits, 4 of them being "Feared".)

Tiberius,

I personally would say that we should approach the topic of discussion from the historical ethnographic analysis angle. It is also my impression that this will be a mixture of a formal debate and an informal discussion, as they usually provide the highest level of thought and one can usually reap the highest rewards from such. It will, however, be up to Mr. Tully as he is the one that originally laid the challenge of the debate out in the first place, yes?

Thank you.

Mr. Tully,

I'm glad to here that you have accepted my topic of discussion. Over the past couple of weeks, I've been reading some rather interesting documents that contain prophecies about the Three. I must say, I have some fairly interesting theroies to discuss with you.

Good Day.

Ah the prophecy of the three! Excellent discussion topic, gentlemen! I a few questions however. In our debate, shall we be examining this from a phenomenological approach, a literary critique, or perhaps a historical ethnographic analysis? I believe that the first or the third would be the most enlightening; literary theory and all its post-modern tomfoolery are, in my opinion, the work of simple minds attempting to use high-brow terms in a form of intellectual masturbation. Simply my thoughts on the matter of course, and I would be happy to offer my thoughts from that perspective if necessary. Also, will this be a formal debate, or an informal discussion? Such of course requires different preparation. Ooo, look at me! I'm as giddy as an english lad on the day of his first football match! I can hardly wait!

Gentleman Please! If this debate is to occur then these childish impoliteness will disset now! Mr. Malcom and Mr. Smythe are both welcome to attend. HOWEVER.. be aware that your supernatural advantages will be null and void in my establishment. My business is for scholarly pursuits, not for parading around with your chest puffed out. I hope I have made myself clear. It seems our mutual acquaintance Mr. Giovanni has chosen a subject matter. Study up on the prophecy of the three gentlemen. I look forward to seeing you this Saturday.

Mr. Tully,

I would be glad to debate with you concerning the Prophicies of the Three. Please contact me ASAP.

Thank you,

You think me an idiot, Malcolm? You are the one inable to hold control over your beast over a simple question. Would it not be wise to do otherwise? You have nearly signed your own death certificate. One more insult and it will be. You hold no Camarilla membership any longer, and therefore, you do not have its protection. At least Tiberius is subtle, the mark of a true scholar. As for speaking to Ms. Argo, I would, if her whereabouts were known.

My dear Jesaen, I would be most interested in meeting with you as well. You must of course understand my caution however, given the history that your clan and mine has had. Perhaps you, Malcolm and I could meet together and have a lively debate over tea and crumpets, or at least their vampiric equivalent?

My dear Jesaen, I would be most delighted to speak with you as well. You must of course understand my caution however, given the relationship that your clan and mine has had in the past. I would most enjoy a spirited debate with you and Malcolm however. Perhaps we can all plan to meet together for tea and crumpets, or at least the vampiric equivalent thereof?

Malcolm, while I am as interested as you seem to be in the words of Tiberius, I would suggest that you refrain from assaulting a member of my clan, be it physically or verbally. You have shown yourself in the past to be able to think logically to some extent. I would suggest that you use that ability now, lest you draw too much negative attention to yourself. We may not always agree on solutions to the problems facing the city, but I would hate to be forced to reduce you to a pile of ash. Tiberius, I would like to meet with you, perhaps this coming weekend. It would greatly please me to have a conversation with one so distinguished as yourself. Please contact me if this would be possible. Amaranth, the address you left me does not seem to work. Please contact me at the address below at your convenience. Tremere clan, there will be a meeting at the chantry immediately after the conclusion of Elysium this Saturday. Mr. Smythe, you are welcome if you wish to attend. Until then.

I would be greatly interested in talking to you, my dear Malcolm! It has been so long since I have been able to discuss the finer points with a sane individual. Sadly, my appearance has rendered most undergraduate teaching impossible due to the human reaction to flee in terror, and most graduate students...*shudder* we shall not go there. I'm sure you are familiar with the works of gromche, Weber, Durkheim and the like? Perhaps we could begin at, as they say, the beginning? Do you feel that sociopolitical institutions, especially religion, have an essence that can be quantified to be universal for all human societies, or do you feel that the unique ecological and phenomenological conditions of human cultures renders such an abstraction useless, or perhaps even impossible? Perhaps we can have a full conversation on the subject on saturday.

Supernatural of the city. Finally your little banter has become interesting! So long I have slummed in this city watching you war amongst each other. Until now I carried very little hope for your continued existence! However, This social verbiage taking place on the board has caught my interest. I therefore make this challenge: All supernatural are invited to take part in an organized debate contest. The party who can best demonstrate superior intellect through verbiage will gain from my person their choice of Arcane lore. Those who are interested my respond by posting on this board. I thank all of you for your patronage.

Oh my! Age old enemy of the tremere! You do flatter me, Mr. Smythe. Sadly, my ideas have only been codified in the last century and a half, so no, I doubt I am your "age old enemy". It does send shivers down my spine to know that the corpulent elite trembles at the thought of a proletarian uprising though! As for me not being a gargoyle, you do flatter my appearance so! Sadly, again I must debunk your theory. I have a rather warty hide and large wings, so I am either a gargoyle or a dean at Rutgers. So sorry. As for your questioning of the relevance of my socio-political musings, as you so quaintly put them, perhaps you should consider how the sabbat and camarilla got to where they are now, and how a cease-fire could be made permanent. Your atavistic tendencies to smash are what got this mess started, Mr. Smythe, and the cro-magnon desire to pummel the unknown will only exacerbate matters is allowed to continue.

Tiberius, I would be more than willing to trade you some of my best stories in exchange for the telling of how we are related. Interested?

Smythe, after your insane stunt at the meeting of vampires, which I must add that by your actions you managed to end any possibility of meaningfull discourse therin, I only thought that you *might* be a complete idiot. This discussion with the scholarly marxist, which I must add is very interesting to me, has comfirmed my hypothesis. The fact that the tremere heiarchy has sent you to "deal" with a problem of any weight fills me with dread of these modern nights. in times of old tremere were feared and respected, now they send you, a laughing stock with worse manners and less common sence than the most bestial of gangrel. Frankly, talk with Ms. Argo, she could give you a few tips about how tremere should act in public.

Fine, what you're speaking of makes the world go round, good for you. Now, how does this aid Lansing? From the current situation, the kindred of this town care nothing for socio-political theory. They're more worried about ending this damned plague and ensuring the tentative ceasefire between the Camarilla and Sabbat is maintained. Does anyone reading this board care about what "Tiberius" has to say? I'm beginning to doubt your being a gargoyle at all. Could you be the individual I came to Lansing to hunt? An age old enemy of all the Tremere?

My dear Mr. Smythe, is your predicament that you are uneducated or are you simply slow? "useless banter", indeed. The substance of which I have been speaking makes the world go round, dear boy! The war of ideologies and class stratification holds true for a vampire as much as it does for a Yaley. Just because you suck blood and run around casting spells does not make you immune to the effects of a cosmology designed to justify the elite. I mean really, Mr. Smythe, do you think your jyhad comes from thin air, hmmm? Of course not you doddering fool! It comes from a complex interworking of mandates, all stems from different societal interests! A three year old child who still wets his bed could tell you as much! And while we're on the subject, you have yet to explain the authority of *your* mandate to silence me, Mr. Smythe. And please don't claim it from your ability to "beat ass" to use the vulgar argot. I get more than enough of that from my clanmates, and it gives me *such* a headache.

I can fight with words just as easily as any Brujah can fight with his fists. Now, unless you have something of worth to add to Lansing's forum, desist in your irrelevent banter.

Ah ha! You admit to your deficit! Excellent, Mr. Smythe. Admitting your weaknesses is the first step towards correcting them. As for fighting you, while I am sure that in whatever shallow offshoot of the halls of academia that you attended fighting was an accepted means to cover for your lack of knowledge, those of us from Harvard prefer to use *words* over fisticuffs. And in regards to your assertion that I be quiet, I say: nonsense! You hardly form a quorum on this list Mr. Smythe. By what mandate to you claim the right to silence me? Don't tell me some fishy tart in a lake threw a sword at you; that's been done before. Well, Mr. Smythe? I'm waiting...

Enough of this cordial idiocy. I am not a Tremere diplomat, that is the job of the Regent. I am here to ensure Tremere interests are protected and to investigate rumors of one of our clan's enemies active in and around the area. If you were truly a scholar of Tremere history, you would know that I personally sent many rogue gargoyles to Final Death. Now, either be quiet, or face me in combat.

*sniff* you sir are too vulgar for even one of those Yaley barbarians. I would consider it likely that at best that you attended some grotesque "learning" institution like Princeton or even Brown, where at best they teach you not to drool on your books. Really, the resorting to personal attacks when one can not refute my arguments in an intellectual or at least civil manner! *tsk, tsk*. It is really no wonder our kind stopped blindly following your orders. As soon as you proved your manners brutish and your education scarcely above one of these "Big ten" universities you simply became...well, degenerates really. *sigh* in the future, try to be civil my dear Mr. Smythe. Manners are the first mark of the enlightened man. Or at the very least, try to avoid drooling all over your occult tomes. I so detest seeing a first volume of hollowed learning destroyed by a simpleton.

I'm going to do some more checking, looking at examples of Anger Frenzy in other books and whatnot, but for the time being my opinion agrees with the research done so far.

Reflexive, non-defensive actions which immediately increase the chance of the target of your frenzy being destroyed more quickly are legal. The target's actions are immaterial to a Frenzying vampire however, and even if the target were to suddenly jump into a pit of fire, the frenzying vampire would likely leap in after to make certain that the target was destroyed. (Obviously, spending willpower at this point to control your frenzy might be prudent)

I have to go with Skippy on this one... the STs said that they agreed with Malcom being able to use Celerity and claws, which, by the way, were out prior to the Frenzy. This was AFTER they looked in the books. I think that the challenge was settled at that point, and the ruling should stick.

Lisa

The ruling, as I remember it, was that we couldn't find anything for or against spending blood while in Frenzy. In that instance, it wasn't a big deal, and we let it go. However, it may be a big deal in the future. You're not supposed to gain advantages in Frenzy, which you would if you were allowed to spend blood to augment attributes or use disciplines. If kindred could control a Frenzy like this, they'd be doing this all the time, and with the new rules, they'd all be callous, condescending assholes(You gain negative social traits when you Frenzy).

Um, Adam, wasn't that ruling overturned AT the session? To my knowledge, that ruling after the challenge card sticks.

After examining Tremere records, no Gargoyle by the name of Tiberius exists. So, my friend, you either are a renegade member of either the Tremere or Gargoyle clans, or know far too much about our clan. I suggest you leave the area... now.

Well you see, Mr. Smythe that our "boisterousness", to use your layman's terms, does not derive from our genetic makeup, but rather the intense dialectic between master and slave that arose after our creation. This Marxian class war developed gradually from an unconscious resistance to the illusory cosmological and philosophical worldview that you provided us to justify your domination, to a conscious resistance form in which we, acting as the proletariat in Marx's social play, rose up and achieved some measure of agency in shaping our own fates. So you see, Mr. Smythe that your proposition of a genetic basis for our enthusiasm is naive and honestly something only a Yale graduate would think of. Those of us with a Harvard education simply know better, that this is a purely social phenomena, brought on by the removal of the cosmological illusions instilled to justify the tremere's subjugation of our race. Now, if you will excuse me, I must go look intimidating and rend some flesh. A good eve to you sir.

I must appologize for my comment to the Gangrel. I thought you would have had a better sense of humor. Perhaps it is Gangrel irrationality that makes the Gargoyles so boisterous? Anyway, you have the Tremere's support for your little sojourn to the Umbra. Good luck to you.

I'm beginning to hate people like me, but once again, a rules issue has been brought up. I made a ruling(which was challenged) that blood cannot be used while in Frenzy. The challenge was issue that blood could be used while in Frenzy. After looking through both LotNR AND V:tM 3rd edition I found no evidence for either. However, I thought about how most people act when exceptionally pissed... usually fairly irrational. Most people don't use all their facilities when acting, arguing, fighting etc. I seriously doubt most vampires, especially those with a low Self-Control score, would be capable of going all out while in Frenzy. There's probably a reason as to why there is an Elder level discipline of Animalism used to control Frenzy and use it's advantaged. Unless this is overturned by Overlord Dave, blood can be used for one thing while in Frenzy: Nothing. Being in Frenzy is bad... unless you're Sabbat.

Im moving to Zimbobway, wherei will learn the art of um an Eskimo, yea, also after that im going to like move to ummmmmmmmm yea...

We will be having a discussion this Saturday at the MSU Union at 6pm. Topics slated to discuss are Rules, LARPING Easter weekend, Storyline over the summer, Current plotline, Last Supper Demo Larp, and Jack Webb's Head. Storytellers will be there to listen and field questions ONLY. Please try to attend...

Ok.... this is giving me a headache. Lets save this conversation until Saturday little talk at the union. Everyone please show if you can!

This will be the last I say on rules for a long time. To sum everything that's come up in the past few weeks:

1)Potence can only be used in opposing or offensive challenges

2) Opposing Challenges using different trait types resolve separately

3) Opposing Challenges using the same trait types resolve in the same challenge

4) Initiative goes by the number of traits declared in the category of the action attempted. The natural result of this is that everyone will have to declare their actions before any of them resolve.

5) Alacrity goes directly before who it's preempting, not in a separate alacrity phase (though it can be done this way for simplicity). Alacrity allows a change of actions in response to an opponent's physical action.

6)Neither Fortitude, nor Thaumaturgy, nor any other discipline will be getting the much coveted Bomb nor the win ties ability.

7)All of this is actually part of the rule books as written, no rule changes have been made out of all those proposed. So if you've got the book, you're ready for combat. Except for Healing, which will have to be explained to new players.

Thanks bunches for putting up with the lawyers, I hope this gets us all back on the same page for a while.

Ack, stupid rules debates. The first Laws of the Night is actually better in how to deal with challenges. Anyway, Potence should only be used on offense. Fortitude should only be used to decrease the effects of damage. Celerity is a pain in the ass. Leaving the alacrity pre-empt out, Celerity actions should be taken as normal after the initial action. Alacrity, the way Dave said it was used, sounded like it was being used right. As for the way challenges are going doesn't make sense to me. I think if we're going to use the initiative system, the challenging parties should compare their traits in the appropriate categories for the actions they're taking. Whoever has more, goes first. Then, the next guy goes. Dread Gaze vs. a punch to the temple doesn't seem logical to me. Punch to the temple vs. a cringing Toreador wuss, and Dread Gaze vs. the overconfident Brujah rabble does seem logical. I hate disciplines now. All the vampires are now reduced to mortals, only with a higher trait maximum. So neener...

Admittedly, debating rules questions on the board can cause some confusion among those not involved, but like John said it's important that we get all these bugs worked out so that combat can move more smoothly, stay more In Character, and avoid rules debates in the middle of the game. Frankly, this is the time to do it if you have a rules problem or question, not during the game. I need the help too sometimes since knowing every little nuance of the rules like the back of my hand allows everyone to concentrate more on plotlines and character development. With that I have some business to take care of regarding Potence.

The case that brought the Potence use to my attention involved Malcolm and Vince. Malcolm used Alacrity to separate the challenges so there was Malcolm attack/Vince defend, Vince attack/Malcolm defend. On Malcolm's attack he successfully took away Vince's ability to use the Bomb and Might retests with the argument that Vince was not using Strength when defending, only when attacking.

What do we do about this? Frankly it's been a constant controversy I would like resolved. At first glance any time you can bid Tough, Stalwart, Brawny, Ferocious, Wiry or a few of the Miscellaneous traits (Brutal or Tenacious come to mind) you can get a Might Retest, use the Bomb and Win Ties except at range (covers the case of being Tough enough to take a bullet). It also says things like "any challenge of sheer physical strength" "use only your strength" "whenever you enter a contest of strength" and "in tests of strength". While all those may be vague it clearly implies through example that it is intended to be used in combat on offense ("even if your opponent tries to evade you" "your opponent may try to defend with Stamina or Speed"). Add in the fact that ALL Potence powers increase the chance of or amount of damage and take into account that Defense is only supported by the inclusion of Stalwart and Tough in Prowess and you come up with this: My interpretation of this now (and I am changing my tune again) is that Potence is NOT meant to be used on defensive soak challenges, even in Melee. If you are using opposed challenges, yes. If you are attacking, yes. Tough and Stalwart can be bid in tests of Strength as well as to soak, but it appears that only in the first case can you use your Potence powers.

The reason I interpreted it the other way in the first place was that it seemed to balance Potence and Celerity. Potence appears to be FAR inferior to Celerity after this interpretation however (Celerity being useful on offense AND defense and even at range) and thus I dont want to hear any more bitching about the initiative system. Celerity is the power that makes Social and Mental actions seem weak, not Potence or other Physical actions.

And yes you can fire a gun multiple times with Celerity - P.140 "...if shooting a gun twice for instance..." My advice to all of you: Get some Celerity. A question for the rules panel though... read Celerity, does it appear to anyone else that you can only use the Bomb or win ties when attacking with a thrown weapon or dodging? Maybe we shouldn't allow the Bomb or Fleetness ability with any melee weapon with a Heavy negative trait?

Heya! I just wanted to let everyone know (in case you haven't heard) that I was accepted for a position in Japan, so Aaron, Fiona and I are leaving for the land of the rising sun on July 23rd! I heard this rumor that Pyle was going to through a going away party (hint, hint)!! So get to it Pyle!!! :P

Here we go...

Rules are dumb. Shut up about the rules. Rules are meant to support the plot, not vice-versa.

Playing over easter is good.

Continuing this storyline over the summer is good.

Meeting at the Union is also good.

LARP demo instead of this LARP is bad. Have it on some other day.

I, acting as a member of the White Wolf Demo team, would like to know if the Fortress Larpers would like to, for one night only, Demo "The Last Supper". (The tale of the creation of the Giovanni clan and the death of Cappadocious) This Larp would be considered a Dark Ages Rules Larp. I was thinking of doing it the week after Larpies. Therefore it could act as a transition from old storyline to new. (Whatever that is going to be) I would need at least 12 players but more would be welcome. Just another topic to discuss at the meeting in the union. (If we have one) Ok. I'm done. Bye Bye.

Actually, now that me and Dave have ironed out the problems I had been having with the rules, there should be a whole lot less postings frm me about rules. You can all breathe now. I know that alot of you don't like to think about the rules, but when they are fine tuned and everyone knows them they speed up challenges and mechanics (and no waiting for ST intervention)allowing more time for role playing, plus the sence of a more fluid and dynamic action sequence. Anyway, I won't take up anymore of your space.

I think a meeting at the Union would be good. Also, I think we should play Easter weekend. And lastly, I would like to see the current storyline continued through the summer.

Sorry, I'm trying to be like Dave with the "refresh" button.

Hi everyone! I will not be joining you for the rest of the month, unfortunately, due to other personal business, so I don't care if there is a game before Easter or not. I would like to vote for the larp continuing through the summer, however! Let me make it clear that I would prefer THIS larp storyline to continue, not just any larp.

One other thing: sorry for misspelling and other ignorance, but, I really need to get in touch with Jaesson of Tremere so I can complete some downtime business. My e-mail address is at the bottom, please drop me a line so I can talk to you, thanks!

Hi everyone! I will not be joining you for the rest of the month, unfortunately, due to other personal business, so I don't care if there is a game before Easter or not. I would like to vote for the larp continuing through the summer, however! Let me make it clear that I would prefer THIS larp storyline to continue, not just any larp.

One other thing: sorry for misspelling and other ignorance, but, I really need to get in touch with Jaesson of Tremere so I can complete some downtime business. My e-mail address is at the bottom, please drop me a line so I can talk to you, thanks!

ok..sooo there are too many conversations about rulse on this board right now..and most of you are having a problem dealing with it..and myself..being the kind and caring soul that i am have taken it upon myself to give advice on how to cope with this dilema..first of all..well..ok..not really first since there isnt' going to be a second way to cope with this since the way i'll tell you is the best way..oh..but i digress...what you need to do is imagine..yes yes..i know it's hard and all...we being mundane folks who tend never to try to imagine that they are something supernatural or special or god like in any way..but imagine that these people talking about rules are in a mud pit..all of them..then imagine them all in ladies string bikinis...pink with yellow pokadots..then continue on this tangent and imagine that they are all midgets..greased midgets..i mean no one has more fun than a greased midget at a frat party..ok so add a frat party to this and the mud pit..so there are 50 plus drunk frat boys chearing on all these greased midgets in string women's pink with yellow pokadot bikinis...and then continue this reality exorcise by pretending that the ones that are posting these rants about rules are actually plucked chickens suffering from eplieptic seisures enduced by a large phalice that is being soundly beaten about their craniums..as they tpye these messages to the board with their clean plucked little rumps..and so these greased midget mud warriors sally forth to their grisly rules rants and the frat boys cheer mightily..and don't forget to picture the clean plucked epilepitc chickens..they're a key element..and if you correctly imagine this you will be able to read this message board with absolutely no problem what so ever...oh...ya i'd like a meeting i'm hip with that...don't care when cause i'll prolly not be able to make it unless it is before larp on sat...and phewy to easter..larp is more fun then finding last year's rotten eggs..

SARAH- Apology accepted. =>

Do more than 5 people post on this board? I would like to hear other peoples opinions of the topics at hand. Especially in regards to playing the saturday before Easter and having a "Town meeting" this saturday at the union. Comments?

Win ties and get the bomb with Fortitude? Well... NO NO NO! Fortitude is a discipline used to make it so you don't get hurt as bad as you normally would without it. Fortitude already grants you no wound penalties on challenges, an extra health level, the ability to turn lethal/bashing to none, aggravated to lethal, and the ability to not die. Giving the additional benefits of da bomb and winning ties is ALSO imbalancing. If we're going to go by the book(or how Dave interprets it) 99 44/100% of the time, let's go by the book.

Tabitha~

First of all, there are NO Primogen at this point. ::sighs:: The meetings that I had were with individuals that I needed to speak with. The first meeting of the evening was at the Triple Goddess, where we had been meeting for the last 3 weeks. We *always* have a meeting of the Kindred at the beginning of the evening. Secondly, I asked those of the Kindred that voted against me to provide a damn good reason why they did so, or there would be hell to pay. Currently, I have recieved NO letters or postings from any of them. Hmmm... what to do, what to do? I apologize for calling the One a "he", it was meant in a sort of religious sense only. After all, we all know that the One is genderless. Again, my apologies for that. I *do* hope to hear from you all soon regarding that vote.... Like Tabitha.. you wouldnt like me when Im angry. (OOC~ Pyle, thats cool. Sorry iffn I misread. And as to the rules thing on the page...AGGGGGGHHHHHHHHKKKKKKKK!!!MAKE IT STOP!!! ::Goes brain overload with Bianca:: Maybe we should design a seperate page for rules discussion and link it to this one??? Please??)

Sarah, I hope you're not mad at me. I can tell you that I found out about two Camarilla meetings that went on Saturday night. Long after your first meeting...that I apologise for not being at. But anywho, there were two Camarilla meetings...and was I invited to even one of them? NO! Now that makes me just a tiny bit upset. I even found out later that one of these meetings was a meeting of the Primogen Council. Now, did they have a Malkavian representative? Again, I tell you NO! Now that makes me just a tiny bit more upset. Trust me, you don't want to see me too much more upset. I don't paint pretty pictures. Anyway, all I wanted to say is that you really have no right to be mad at me. I prophesy for you from The One, and I try my best to update you on whats happening as far as I know. And what do you do? First, you call The One a man...which you know very well that The One has no gender! Then you don't invite me to your meeting. Uh oh, I'm getting more upset. You know what's next in line on the Upset Meter! And as I said, you don't want to see that.

AHHH!!! TOO MANY RULES!!! BRAIN OVERLOAD!!! Gods, I feel like I'm in school again. It's almost as if White Wolf needs to teach a course at major universities, just on LARPing. The very thought frightens me. Anywho, as far as LARPing on Easter...I agree. Allowing a Christian Holliday to interrupt good Gothic fun...I think not. Bring on the LARP, and keep bringing it on all summer long. There's no telling what boredom will bring to East Lansing if-in the LARP ends for the summer. I shudder at the thought. =>

I agree with Adam, Allowing Potence to be used in defence is downright imballenceing. However, letting Fortitude give you the Bomb and Ties at appropriate levels for soaking/resisting damage challenges would make alot of sense and would even the gap in power between Fortitude and the other two physical disciplines? (pretty please with a cherry on top?)

Allowing players to win ties on soak tests with Puissance is very imbalancing to the game. I've seen players with Puissance get mauled, and not take any damage when they won ties when bidding "tough", even though the attacking party had more traits. It's enough they win ties while attacking. Tough may be a strength related trait, but being strong doesn't make you any more resilient to a bullet going through your skull.

Sorry Lisa, once again I misspoke what I was thinking. As I said I don't want to dictate to players how to play their characters. In the same tokens I feel Nature and Demeanours are not only misplayed but largely ignored. They were designed for role-playing tips and a way to for a storyteller to hand out experience awards. Since my big problems is people going against what they determined to be their characters behaviour, I have brought the idea to the storytellers of rewarding experience based on role-playing natures and demeanours. Fair compromise to outright changing the nature and demeanours huh?

Oops... dont hit Refresh on the Submitted entry page.

Preliminary results indicate no examples or specific wordings contradicting the rule on p.193 "Essentially, this restiction means that a player can usually use only those Traits from the same category as her opponent's Traits."

What does this mean? Well basically one of two things... either they intended Physical actions only to be opposed by Physical opposing actions (I.E. You cannot Dread Gaze someone that's Attacking you with Brutal) or that the actions, if coming from different categories, dont oppose each other (I.E. If I have higher Physical Traits than you have Social: I shoot you, you dodge/soak then you Dread Gaze me, I defend with Social). In my opinion they intended both, which basically puts us back where we started regarding challenges with the following exception:

Joe Tremere is Flamebolting (Thaumaturgy) you, John is Commanding (Dominate) him to Eat Dirt for 10 minutes, they engage in OPPOSED challenges to determine which is successful. Yes this means that one or the other will succeed (assuming John is lower Gen than Joe), yes this is a rare circumstance, yes Eating Dirt is nasty.

Initiative stays the same though with the following exception: the person who declares a challenge first in a combat goes first in the first round of combat. Then, whoever speaks up goes next, but they can be trumped based on traits if another person wants to go before them (you have to speak up though, dont wait until the results of the challenge have been determined). I have found nothing in the rules stating that Social and Mental go first before Physical. If anyone thinks they can, give me a page number or section and I will consider it.

On a side note, regarding Potence and Celerity's Bomb and Win Ties ability: You CAN use them when defending. Tough is listed under Potence's First Basic Discipline level and Celerity states that you can use it any time you bid something involved with speed. The combination of the two, according to my opinion, cover EVERY physical trait normally used in combat with the exeption of pure stamina challenges (endurance related, such as running for hours and hours) and tests to resist disease, poison and the like. To make it simple and fair, to avoid ruling which particular words apply to each Discipline and to keep combat flowing (You used Steady, is Steady a strength trait? STORYTELLER!!!), Potence will cover both most Attack tests with Strength (Brutal enough to push my M-16 butt into your ribcage)and Soaking with Physical (I am Stalwart enough to take that) where Celerity will cover Attack tests with Dexterity (I'm Graceful enough to poke you with my Broadsword) and avoiding damage with a Dodge type action (Agile enough to avoid your strike). As always, I can be overruled with a legitimate reference to a page number, section or example.

Preliminary results indicate no examples or specific wordings contradicting the rule on p.193 "Essentially, this restiction means that a player can usually use only those Traits from the same category as her opponent's Traits."

What does this mean? Well basically one of two things... either they intended Physical actions only to be opposed by Physical opposing actions (I.E. You cannot Dread Gaze someone that's Attacking you with Brutal) or that the actions, if coming from different categories, dont oppose each other (I.E. If I have higher Physical Traits than you have Social: I shoot you, you dodge/soak then you Dread Gaze me, I defend with Social). In my opinion they intended both, which basically puts us back where we started regarding challenges with the following exception:

Joe Tremere is Flamebolting (Thaumaturgy) you, John is Commanding (Dominate) him to Eat Dirt for 10 minutes, they engage in OPPOSED challenges to determine which is successful. Yes this means that one or the other will succeed (assuming John is lower Gen than Joe), yes this is a rare circumstance, yes Eating Dirt is nasty.

Initiative stays the same though with the following exception: the person who declares a challenge first in a combat goes first in the first round of combat. Then, whoever speaks up goes next, but they can be trumped based on traits if another person wants to go before them (you have to speak up though, dont wait until the results of the challenge have been determined). I have found nothing in the rules stating that Social and Mental go first before Physical. If anyone thinks they can, give me a page number or section and I will consider it.

On a side note, regarding Potence and Celerity's Bomb and Win Ties ability: You CAN use them when defending. Tough is listed under Potence's First Basic Discipline level and Celerity states that you can use it any time you bid something involved with speed. The combination of the two, according to my opinion, cover EVERY physical trait normally used in combat with the exeption of pure stamina challenges (endurance related, such as running for hours and hours) and tests to resist disease, poison and the like. To make it simple and fair, to avoid ruling which particular words apply to each Discipline and to keep combat flowing (You used Steady, is Steady a strength trait? STORYTELLER!!!), Potence will cover both most Attack tests with Strength (Brutal enough to push my M-16 butt into your ribcage)and Soaking with Physical (I am Stalwart enough to take that) where Celerity will cover Attack tests with Dexterity (I'm Graceful enough to poke you with my Broadsword) and avoiding damage with a Dodge type action (Agile enough to avoid your strike). As always, I can be overruled with a legitimate reference to a page number, section or example.

Alright, here's my suggestion for compromise for dealing with the challenge system. Why don't we simply give the bomb at level 3, and winning ties at level 5 for mental challenges with dominate and social challenges with presence? That puts everything on a level playing field as far as mixing mental/physical or social/physical challenges. It also, IMO won't really slow down the new combat system that much; there's simply not that many people around who have powers at the levels where this becomes an issue. It also makes sure that people with mentally focused characters aren't completely helpless when a grimlock smash character comes after them, while also making sure that said mental character can't use his/her uber-mental powers to whoop ass in combat. It balances everything, and really doesn't unbalance the relative power of the disciplines, IMO.

Rant #2: I am checking the rules right now regarding the sections in the book you quoted (or actually Seth is since he is the one who outlined this for me) we have debated long and hard on this subject but it's not too late to change for realism, clarity or fairness. Most of it, like initiative, are not being debated right now and will stand. I think this is a big deal (initiative) and I think we can make the trait system for initiative work. It's largely opposed challenges with different categories of attributes that is the subject of John's challenge. I'll get back with you when we have it all researched. I do definately agree with John on one point, the person who speaks up first in the very first round of combat (takes the initiative) aught to go first for that round only unless preempted by Alacrity.

Okay... let me deal with Rant #1 before I go on to read rant #2. Agg damage - I have no problem making Agg damage take a night's rest in addition to the blood and will and such. I feel it's not a huge change in the game though, since you could still heal 7 Agg over the course of the week. We could impliment the other suggestion made during the LARP that the blood used to heal Agg comes off your base blood at the beginning of the nest LARP, that might take care of making it actually mean something. The only other material difference between John's suggestion regarding Agg and what we're playing with now is that you couldn't heal it during the LARP... expensive but possible. Assuming the other storytellers agree, I say lets go back to the exact rules on Agg damage. In regards to lethal taking the full round... this is supported in the book on page 106 "Healing in this fashion (with blood) requires your concentration and a full turn" it is disputed on page 199 "This process (healing with blood) can be performed at the same time other actions are performed, even alongside Discipline use." Sound directly contradictory? Ah well... such are the rules. So the part *I'm* interested in is not letting Vampires use their blood like Health levels in combat. Therefore to reconcile the two rules in the book we decided: Bashing - reflexive, heals one level per blood point, Lethal - takes a full turn, heals one level per blood point. I think we're in agreement now right? Now on to the next rant.

Okay... I have a problem, with something that was said by Pyle... changing natures and demeanors? Rest assured, for every action that Sarah does, there is a reason for that that does apply to her nature and her demeanor. They might not be the most *obvious* thing to everyone else, but then again, I like to keep people guessing. Please just remember that things like survival can mean a lot of things to a lot of different people. Also, I say, play on Easter. I dont know if I will be there, cos Easter makes getting a sitter rather hard, but... As to the rules thing... Until there is a new ruling, I am going to just.. Well, to be blunt, when the rules are argued on the board like this, it makes it really confusing for the new players that are trying to get the hang of things. Hell, I get confused just listening to Dave and Seth!!!! And I think another Union meeting at the GREAT MSU would be a good idea! There is about 6 cents worth.

Lisa

A discussion at the Union sounds like a good idea, although... PLAYERS NEED TO READ THE BOARD and discuss things too(a couple of games I've played in, only do things online. What would happen if we did that?! Dun dun dun!). I personally hate the new challenge system, and I think it needs to be revised(again).

satan

Ok. John is appearing on the board to be a very vocal minority. However, I know more of you have problems and/or questions with the new system. I was thinking it might be good to have another little sit down talk with people at the union again. Tell me what yoi think. Topics would include: Current storyline, summer larp, playing Easter weekend, new combat rules, pants, and anything else people want to get off their chest. We can pass around Jack Webb's head again. What do people think???? Discuss...

Second rant: I've dissused this issue with two of the ST's already and the responce has been discuraging (I know it's spelled wrong; tough). Therefore I bring this out to you all, the new initative + challenge system is a huge mistake. This change in the rules from a 4-phase (table top) to a 1-phase (Dave's ruling) sacrifices an enormous ammount of model resolution while intoducing a bias that will cause the domination of the game by grimlock-smash spin characters within the next year. Please review Dave's post describing this rules change, according to this system a bruja (or nasty 'grel) with the bomb or the ability to win ties will be almost immune to mental or social disciplines. {Puny Tremere (12mental, 3phys) cannot dominate Grimlock (3mental, 12phys), I smash you head} Grimlock gets to use his Bomb and whatever else he's got due to potence or celerity. The Tremere dosn't even get to overbid b/c you are comparing mental to physical. The same XP investment leads to a much lower return for the Mental/Social character now. Additionally, with the old rules one *could* be creative and get around the use of these physical disciplines. {I'm quick enough to get away. Grimlock is brutal} = no bomb (same might be true for tough and celerity.) But that's another ball of wax altogether. I play a reletively Grimlockian character and Dave's ruling is of enormous benefit to me, no longer do I have to dread dominate or presence, as long as I declare my action to be violent in return I get to out bid most players. Therefore, I hope you can see how unfair I think this ruling is, I'm giving up all his power. I'm trying to do this b/c I care about this game and I've seen games die due to simmilar ruleings. I don't want to see the same thing happen to this one. Additional arguements: On pg. 193 of LOTN2, it says "All traits used in a challenge must be from the same catagory" (yes that was a quote) additionally it says that a player can "use only those Traits from the same catagory as her opponent's" About the initative rules the book says on pg. 196, "This rule can cause as much confusion as it's trying to solve," This is not the sort of endorsement I want on the rules I use. These huge problems can be solved easily: Go back to a 2-phase system, where one party attacks while the other defends, and vice versa. This will enforce that appropriate traits are used and inappropriate powers are not for each challenge. This is the system that we have been using since I got here and most players are familiar with. As for initiative, the social/mental/physical (S/M/P)system is a hell of a lot simpler and easier to use (and quicker) than the comparison of traits. Only a few clarifications are needed. The S/M/P system should be used at each celerity phase, Alacrity, Normal(if you went on Alacrity, you don't get to go on Normal) Swiftness, Legerity. Additionaly, the action that goes first at the start of the combat is the action that was declared first (player taking initiative), this is only for the forst round. *Among challenge types* (if it is absolutely critical) initiative can be resolved using traits. In mobs, the outnumbered party automaticly looses initiative (unless he started the combat and it's the first round) this is because it's quicker and mobs suck for those being mobbed. Last rant for the day, Hope you actually read all this: it's really important to me to get this fixed and it might take several players speaking out to do so. Thanks

I checked what John said it and it is true. Agg damage is grim to heal in both table top and LARP. Therefore it is my opinion that if we are going to use the rules from the booking regards to combat then we should use the rules from the book in regards to healing as well. Anything that keeps players away from combat! (Tee Hee) Fair warning though: In the grim combat scene that caused the death of Vincent Giovanni I feel many of you did not play your nature and demeanor. (anyone with a survivor nature or demeanor would not be fighting in flaming car wreckage during sunlight hours) Therefore we are going to be taking a close look at your nature and demeanors during game play. I wont say we will tell you how to play your character, just that if you are playing a different nature and demeanor than the one that is listed we "may" change it. Anybody else besides storytellers have anything to say about playing on the Saturday before Easter?

(OOC) KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK HEY SARAH LET ME OUT OF THIS CLOSET! IT SMELLS LIKE MOTHBALLS IN HERE! OH WHAT I CAN'T SPEAK; THIS REALLY SUCKS

I forgot whatever it was I read in the last post, but I remember there being something about healing aggravated wounds. I've never been fully satisfied with ways of healing aggravated damage. I think being able to heal it immediately after spending the blood and willpower(after the second level is inflicted) traits is fine. Garou can heal up from incapacitation by spending all of one rage. Sure, someone is going to whine at me, "Garou are tougher". Yeah, then why do they die after so many NORMAL levels of damage are inflicted on them and vampires do not? Unless Overlord Dave decides to go to a by the book method of healing aggravated wounds(which sucks ass!!!), its going to stay as is.

Well, it's time for me to keep earning my rules lawyer award, I hope you don't dismiss what I'm trying to do - I really am trying to improve the game by ensuring game ballence while keeping rules as simple as possible without saccrificing ballence and accuracy. First Issue: Damage Systems. Adam wanted to bring the damage and healing systems into line with tabe top. That's not a bad idea, however, he is not using a current set of table top rules for this. The other major ciritisism of his methodology is that, while Will and Blood are nearly equivalent in the two systems, the damage and soaking rules are still VERY different. We used to be on a 2 phase system (primary attack-secondary defend, secondary attack-primary defend), now we are on a 1 phase system (primary attack-secondary attack)[I have more to say about that later]. Table top uses an 4 phase system, (1Atack-2defend,1damage-2soak; Inverse of the previous). Just by changing the number of phases, and the simplifications nessesitated by that change, Lethal and Bashing become more deadly (without the soak phase) and Aggrivated wounds become less so (without the Damage phase). Therefore any treatment of these systems have to take these pre-imballences into account. As for Adam's rule to only allow bashing to be healed reflexively, I like it an I think it should be used. Leathal then, it would follow needs an entire turn to heal (as many as you spent blood for in that round). However, the rules for healing Aggrivated damage are very different in table top from what Adam said they were. The following are the rules from table top(page 218, VtM3), and I think we should use them: One can only heal aggrivated wounds during the day's slumber. The first wound healed that *day* costs 5 blood to heal, any aditional agrivated wounds to be healed during that day are healed at the cost of 5 Blood and an additional Willpower trait. These rules changes would help restore the ballence lost by going from a 4-phase system to a 2-phase system (or 1). Additionally, this would increase the "grimness" of combat, leaving you weakened, despite a possible victory earlier in the evening. This is a simple system and it goes back closer to the orriginal rules than Adam's rule. There is no reason that this should not be implemented, but if it isn't, please at least go back to the rules for Agg published in the LOTN2 (pg 107[primary],pg 200[secondary]) 3 blood and a day's slumber to heal the first wound and 3 blood and will for each additional wound. End of first rant.

Here's an invitation for all of you who wanted to play a 'grell but never did. In two weeks there's going to be a Gather, that's a large number of 'grell being called together in one place. Any of you who want to play 'grell for one night, this would be the perfect one. There'll be hunting, dancing, singing, storytelling and ritual combat. sound's like fun, eh? I guess you should talk to Pyle to arrange these one-nighters, but the more the merrier!

Bah, cancel a LARP for a religious holliday!? No way, man. Let's play.

Ok. According to the schedule the Larpies will be presented April 29th. Making the last last Larp session the 22nd. However, if people do not want to LARP that weekend because of easter then the last session would be the 15th. That would only leave two more roleplaying sessions left this semester. I personnaly do not observe easter so I would like to play the 22nd but I shall leave it up to the group. Discuss people....

If someone could tell me when finals week is and how many larp sessions we have left until then I would appreciate it. Thank you,

There are infernalists among us, other than the demon I hunt. I ask that if you gain knowledge of the whereabouts of the people in question you contact me. Sarah knows how. Know that anyone found harboring an infernalist will share its fate.

I find myself hard pressed to understand why we (the Camarilla) would want to rid ourselves of a perfectly decent Prince at this time. Such a move, no matter how "temporary" would only make the city weaker and more open to Sabbat attack. We must remain strong and united against such an enemy. When new leaders are appointed there is always a time of great weakness during which the new Prince must gain or replace all the contacts/allies/treaties that the old Prince had created. Because of this, the new Prince generally does not have enough resources at hand to combat a an outright Sabbat attack. And even if these reasons were not enough, the current Prince genuinely CARES for our sorry asses. We are LUCKY to have a Prince who does not call a Blood Hunt for a minor smear, or who is calm enough to let us have our "secret meetings" without punishment. I've known many a Prince who have killed for less. At least this Prince believes in and upholds the ideals of the Camarilla! We of the Camarilla cannot simply turn our backs on the organization that has sheltered us and molded us into who we are! The Laws of the Camarilla are what keep this world sane. Without the Camarilla vampires would run mad, caring little to nothing for the rules that were created for our OWN SURVIVAL. If we are to survive in this city... IF we are to make this city Camarilla... we MUST remain united beneath our Prince. Prince Sarah is a FINE Prince, indeed! We should support her as she deserves to be instead of bickering and plotting behind her back. Without a unified front, we will NEVER make this city Camarilla.

All right ... for all of you that are interested, these are a few of the things that I found out last night... According to a source of mine, and I intend to do some further checking into this, the Sabbat have left Lansing, well, most of them, anyway. I think that there might be a couple left. It would seem that we have earned a reprieve and some time to get some things together. #2- Ken Dahl is gone. I heard that there was a meeting last night while I was out working my ass off as Prince of this city, to make things better for all of YOU, to try to remove me as Prince? Let me fill you in on a little secret... NOT HAPPY!!!!!! VERY DISAPPOINTED!!!! I know who all was there. I know who all voted against me. Now ... I will give you ONE chance to explain to me as to WHY in the name of HELL you would do something like that, to follow that IDIOT Ken, who didnt even live to see the sun go down tonight (or rise this morning, to be exact.)! You can call me, or you can email me at the below address. (RadiantDS@aol.com) I am thinking of reforming the Primogen council again, but I absolutely REFUSE to have people there that I cannot trust. I hope that this is clear. Let me just say that I know, as of this point, who my allies are. And as I said ... you have one chance to come to me and explain what the HELL you were thinking. A new Elysium has been set. I am watching carefully. Be careful what you say and do, and I think that you know if I am talking to you. I have been tolerent in the past, but I am sick of the bullshit. I should not have to worry about crap like this while I am out running my ass off all over Lansing, trying to make this city what you have all said that you wanted it to be. And Steve ... thanks for the support, and the compliments. You certainly have ... a way with words.

Sarah

And in the distance, like rolling thunder comes the sound of Wagner's "flight of the valkyries"...slowly...slowly drawing closer to its destination.

You people make me sick. *whiney voice* "Oh, we're getting diseased." "Oh, there's not enough blood to go around." "Oh, the Giovanni are being _mean_ to me." And who's to blame for all of these problems? No, it couldn't be some powerful outside force manipulating things. No, I don't think it's that all the Kindred in the city are running around like decapitated chickens, either. It's the Prince's fault, of course! Then, you people are bitching and moaning about all the chaos in the city, when 99 44/100 % of the current chaos is being caused by those who are trying to remove the _best_ _fucking_ _Prince_ this city has ever seen! If you'd all just settle the fuck down and shut the fuck up a bit, you might find that things will become quite calmer and problems _start_ _getting_ _resolved_! Oh, and I've seen quite a few Princes come and go, too. There was the one who gave out Life Boons friviously, and there was the one who sent his Kindred off to gather _fucking_ _faerie_ _fingernail_ _clippings_... You know why he did that? Because he was a _fucking_ _moron_! I've met all of you, and none of you are half as capable or even a quarter as strong-willed as Buchannan! I ask: When the Giovanni demanded an apology for acts she had nothing to do with, did Sarah bow to their demands? When the Sabbat threatened her life to get her to sign the Treaty of Dumbness (which is crumbling quite handily, by the way), did Sarah submit to them? Instead of trying to get some _moron_ into Princehood, one who would likely begin the "Wile E. Coyote" era of the Camarilla of Lansing, perhaps it would be wiser to put together a _fucking_ _decent_ Primogen Council! For God's sakes, the Ventrue Primogen right now is a _fucking_ _Pooka_, and, as that Ventrue Primogen, I am forced to find this _completely_ _unacceptable_! Actually, I should be _grateful_ that you're all acting like a bunch of idiots; if you all had the intelligence and maturity that the image of a Vampire suggests, I would have easily been overrun by Banality long ago! I used to think that Kindred were somehow above and beyond the foolishness of the Fae, but you guys make Redcaps look like Ben Stein! So.. Cut it out!!

As I understand the customs of these new sects within vampire society, I am supposed to be acknowledged by someone, somewhere. As I observed the goings-on in the city last night I was confused. Who exactly runs this city? Is it this sabbat, or this camarilla, whatever the hell the difference is between the two. No matter. You want to be aware of my presence, here it is. I do not care about your politics, or who rules the city. Leave me in peace to take care of my business here, and you will never see nor hear from me while I am in this city.

As per Camarilla policy, I announce my presence to her Majesty, Prince Sarah Buchanan. I am here as an observer for my clan, the Tremere, nothing more. If the head of my clan would be kind enough to contact me, I'd appreciate it.

There are 3-5 Sabbat slots, or room for 2 3-person packs, open if people would like to play one of the Sword of Caine. However, you're going to have to talk to both myself and whichever ST plans on taking over for the Sabbat over the Summer. Also, I applaud last night's activities. I was thoroughly impressed. Well done everybody. ROCK ON!

Okay, a step away from the bitching that normally ocurs with an OOC posting... EVERYONE DID WONDERFUL TONIGHT, and it was one of the best LARPS ever, I think. Well played, all!!!

Lisa

Due to certain events which transpired during the game, I will now be narrating for the Tremere clan, and the Sabbat still in the area. Tremere players, please send your downtimes to Seth and myself... for the entire two games we have left before the end of the semester.

Oh geeze....can someone come and clean this up???? And Tab...Im used to not liking what he has to say, arent I? ::chuckle:: Just ... get that cleaned up before someone steps in it, allright?

BLAH...PUKE...UPCHUCK!!! *Followed by the sounds of spitting and such* Um, Sarah...I don't think you're gonna like this...

Two things:

First, I think the game should continue over the summer. Yes, the characters here are going to have an advantage, but it's MUCH better to have a PC power structure than an NPC power structure in the game.

Second, I think the esperience gains should stay the same for the summer. It might make more sense to have a powerful, influcence-controlling Prince instead of a neonate with barely any influence that just got shoved into the spot (which has happened MANY times in the LARP's history).

$0.02

The FAQ and Clarifications sheet is now finished and it includes the proper rules (third edition p. 196) for initiative. I thought I'd give you all a sneak peek now though so that we wont have to deal with so many questions in gametime. If you're not interested in detailed rules issues, move on to the next post.

The EXACT TEXT in the rulebook is as follows:

...Each person involved in a given game turn checks the current number of traits appropriate to the action she wishes to attempt. A character punching someone would use Physical Traits to determine speed, while a character casting a spell would probably use Mental Traits. If an action does not require any sort of Trait challenge, it resolves last in the turn. As with overbidding, you may declare fewer Traits than you possess if you wish. Characters with equal numbers of Traits are considered to go "simultaneously," though for resolution purposes the Narrator may simply choose one to act first.

Sometimes a character with a high number of Traits will attack a character with fewer Traits, who will decide to strike back. In this case, the character with fewer Traits resolves his action in the same test as the faster character, but in doing so, he loses the ability to take any aggressive action for the turn - he uses up his one action with the counterattack.

An outline of initiative as we will be using it would go something like this:

1) Preturn events: Spending blood, declaring Obfuscate (which takes effect at the end of the turn), healing Bashing damage, etc.
2) Everyone simultaneously points at who they are acting against. (This step can be simplified according to the situation).
3)Sort out who is acting against who, those acting against each other will make an opposing test REGARDLESS of the types of traits bid.
4)Begin a backward count of trait numbers to see who acts when. Resolve the actions. (This will not be done in many combats, usually the storyteller will simply choose the most significant action to go first and if someone wants to trump that with their number of Traits, they can try by announcing how many they have and comparing it to the current action's Trait number).
5)Celerity's second actions go, followed by the third action, these take place in order of the level of Celerity posessed by the players. In case of equal levels, revert to number of Traits.

Special cases Celerity: A person with Alacrity can still demand separate tests against an opponent using a physical action, and is considered to go before the opponent. A person using Alacrity still goes at their normal Trait number, unless opposed by something they can Preempt, in which case they go directly before the preempted action. In the case of one character with Celerity opposing multiple characters, the Celerity player may use his extra actions to oppose multiple challenges instead of waiting until after everyone goes in the first phase. (Carlos with three actions is up against three Sabbat Shovelheads, Carlos simply acts against each of them instead of waiting for his second and third actions.)

Special cases The Bomb and Puissance/Fleetness: A player using a power that allows them to win ties or use the Bomb will be able to use that ability in an opposed action against someone using a different type of attribute.

In some special cases, such as ranged combat (especially when cover is involved, giving the target bonus traits "Only for Defense") the Storyteller may choose NOT to make challenges opposed and instead go with separate challenges at the character's initiative Phase.